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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    Speaking as an INFJ whose father died about a month and a half ago ...
    Sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing your experience.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post

    Also, I think with most INFJs, you won't see a lot of raw grief.
    Something in the way my friend slipped out the news, just the way the words were put together, I thought that she was feeling raw grief this week. I'm really glad that she has a good network of longtime friends who also knew the friend she lost.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    ^ This has been my experience with INFJs -- primarily with my INFJ mother but also with INFJ friends.

    Two things that may or may not help:

    1) From my experience, INFJs compartmentalize particular people for particular sorts of conversation. Everyone does this to an extent, but when INFJs need someone to talk to, they aren't going to do what an inferior Fi user like me is going to do, which is to almost exclusively go by vibe/gut feeling, re: how safe and trustworthy a person is. They're going to think, which friends will be able to cope with this?
    Hi EJCC,
    what I love about what you wrote above (and the rest of your quote), is that it illustrates just how far the effort to understand others can go, even when it's people of another type etc. And that is beautiful. Because what I think I see is that you have really thought a lot about infjs. It probably helps that your mother is an infj. But you're putting it into words for all of us. I really appreciate it.

    Imagine if we all strove to understand each other like this.

  4. #24
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    1) From my experience, INFJs compartmentalize particular people for particular sorts of conversation. Everyone does this to an extent, but when INFJs need someone to talk to, they aren't going to do what an inferior Fi user like me is going to do, which is to almost exclusively go by vibe/gut feeling, re: how safe and trustworthy a person is. They're going to think, which friends will be able to cope with this? Who will be able to listen when I need them to, without being insensitive or trying to go into problem-solving mode?

    First of all, I want emphasize that all the effort you routinely put into understanding is noted and appreciated (I don't want this post to make it sound like your effort has been for naught). I feel a tiny bit compelled to point out that this urge- to find someone who is capable of helping us make sense of the mess of feelings and impressions going on- is also very much a vibe/gut feeling, it's not a conscious decision. We don't really 'choose' who would seem like the most helpful person, anymore than a plant 'chooses' to grow towards sunlight- it's just something that happens when someone's thinking seemed aligned enough with our own. Whether or not someone is especially capable of helping us make sense of the mess of feelings and impressions causing havoc in our minds is very much a gut/vibe thing. And it's usually correct.

    I think the reason I feel compelled to point this out- that it's not especially a conscious decision- is because if someone complains or protests about not being chosen as a confidant, it can be very confusing. We don't have an explanation ready-at-hand. If it were a conscious choice, it would be infinitely easier to explain to people why it doesn't feel like it would be helpful to turn to them. 'Opening up' or 'shutting down' isn't really a conscious choice any more than it is a statement about that person's character- when people don't understand that (and take it personally), they're inadvertently creating more work and adding to the emotional distress that needs to be sorted out instead of helping ameliorate it. This is why- as a couple people have mentioned- not taking it personally can go a long way with us.

    ***

    Also, I really liked (and agree with) @KellBell's post!
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  5. #25
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    @Z Buck McFate

    Interesting. Thanks for the correction -- I had seen INFJs on the forum post about this as if it were typically not just a conscious decision, but a highly calculated one.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  6. #26
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    For me at least, I think if I were given time and retrospect, I could figure out why (or if it was very obvious that the other person was going to make me feel worse or generally had a history of helping me talk through things well), but I have sometimes opened up to people I don't know well, and other times to people I do know well. Initially, I'd be hard-pressed to say exactly why with either (unless it's based on my past history with them). It's not a vote of confidence/lack of confidence in the person, as there are many people I value and whose strengths I need, but not in that particular role. It's more that at the time, the person seems to answer something in me that I don't always even know is there till we start talking. I don't usually think, "Now, I need someone to process this with. I wonder who it is that I'll talk to".

    One of the difficult things about being somewhat unaware of which feelings to give the most weight to and of thinking I'm doing better than I am sometimes is that I very occasionally will react quite emotionally when my sadness is still unprocessed and I am not just double checking courses of action or discussing solutions, or are dissecting the experience after the fact to see what I can take from it, etc. In the few cases where I have reacted really emotionally just because of uncontrolled overflow, it can surprise me just as much as the other person and it is terribly embarrassing. When that happens with someone who either tries to rationalize it away for me, or wants to immerse themselves in my experience to empathize, I find myself getting very frustrated with them, which further adds to the load. So for myself and their sake, I really don't like to do those earlier stages with anyone, till I feel more ready to discuss where to go from there.

    Last summer, my mum was under a lot of emotional stress, which resulted in her acting uncharacteristically. Because I was generally the one she could always count on, her behaviour with me seemed to be different than that towards other people and I read it that she had less faith in my skills or competence. I was out with my (unofficial) sister who was visiting for the summer and who had spent many of her growing up years in our house, so she understood the dynamics. I thought I was doing fine, and then as she and I started talking, I said something offhanded about what was going on, and suddenly realized it hadn't come out offhanded and I was doing the heaving sobs thing, which I almost never have done even when I am alone. She was being empathetic, but started rubbing my leg sympathetically and I remember just bursting out, "Don't rub my leg! I'm going to be fine." I wanted to get back to normal as soon as possible because it wasn't really at a stage it could be discussed yet. It's like trying to get to a bathroom on time, thinking that you've made it okay and suddenly it just can't be held back and it becomes apparent that what you thought was a stomach gurgle was actually violent diarrhea. (Sorry for the unappealing and graphic picture). Unless someone is bringing you new clothes at that time and giving you time to clean up alone, you're not going to like it. If they try to open the bathroom door, or discuss the incident while you're still cleaning up, their efforts are going to be counterproductive. I guess in that sense, you could say that I make a choice of who not to talk to, but that doesn't explain how I determine who to talk to later on.
    Last edited by fidelia; 07-19-2014 at 10:40 PM.

  7. #27
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post

    Interesting. Thanks for the correction -- I had seen INFJs on the forum post about this as if it were typically not just a conscious decision, but a highly calculated one.
    Maybe it's more accurate to say that it's sorta like the game Tetris. You know how, when the pieces fall down, there are certain spots that are clearly better than others? I do choose who to talk to about things, but I don't choose who seems like the 'clear' best choice- that much is gut/vibe. If I focus on being able to explain why someone would be the most helpful (or why someone- even someone with the best of intentions- would be a detrimental choice), sooner or later I'll be able to provide an explanation. But long before I can provide an explanation, I'll know (usually) who will be most helpful to turn to and that much is gut/vibe.

    To bring this back to the point in the op- (again) the best thing someone can do is simply let an INFJ know they're there, without any pressure for more than that. Even if I know someone can't help me, it's often a comfort just to know someone cares. <- I suspect that goes a long with many of us too.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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