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  1. #1
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Default Make the World a Better Place

    Anyone else find that silly?
    This sort of thing is very heavily associated with NFs... and I've always found it, er, STUPID.

    There's a hidden arrogance there, although those expressing such sentiments usually present a simple, naive idealistic front. I pretty much roll my eyes. I seem to respect idealists who have more of a conscious struggle with good & bad in themselves, a desire to act on noble principles but with a worry the pleasures of life are passing them by at the same time. People who act like they feel 100% selfless and positive all the time are annoying and actually seem extremely shallow.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #2
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Anyone else find that silly?
    This sort of thing is very heavily associated with NFs... and I've always found it, er, STUPID.

    There's a hidden arrogance there, although those expressing such sentiments usually present a simple, naive idealistic front. I pretty much roll my eyes. I seem to respect idealists who have more of a conscious struggle with good & bad in themselves, a desire to act on noble principles but with a worry the pleasures of life are passing them by at the same time. People who act like they feel 100% selfless and positive all the time are annoying and actually seem extremely shallow.
    In my case, it's rather "Make the world more bearable for me". Some sort of trying to change the world to soothe my fears and anxieties. Also, trying not to feel bad about myself for not being able to cope with what's outside by rationalizing that there's something wrong with the world. It's an ego defense mechanism.

    That flavor might be observed in SFs too by the way. I think it is the same for everyone, but it is how it manifests itself and the wording of it that change.

    It changes with age by the way, around 30s or so I guess.

  3. #3
    metamorphosing Flâneuse's Avatar
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    There are people who have very broad compassion and who genuinely care about people in general and the state of the world, but those people aren't the ones who are repeating cheesy cliches and rubbing it everyone's faces how kind/innocent/idealistic they (think they) are. They're the ones who are actually doing something, and when they talk about world issues there's more of a focus on the issues themselves than a self-focus (how much they care, etc.).

    I do think a lot of people have a shallow pseudo-idealism that's driven more by narcissism and moral superiority than by genuine compassion. I was actually thinking about this earlier today, but it was because I noticed that kind of phony idealism and subtle moral arrogance in myself and I had to remind myself that if I'm that vain about my "goodness" it's probably not really goodness I'm looking at, but instead an illusion of it.

    Assuming I'm INFP, I think this attitude is pretty rare for my type. I don't actually see this much in NFs (just occasionally in NFJs). I find that generally NF (especially INFP or just NFP) idealism is misunderstood, and far more personal, internal and abstract than that "vision of how the world should be"/global idealism I keep reading about. I see those kinds of cliched, pretentious declarations you talked about more from ESFJs (mainly Twos and Threes) than any other type, though I've also known many ESFJs who are genuinely caring instead of pridefully "caring".

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    There's a hidden arrogance there, although those expressing such sentiments usually present a simple, naive idealistic front. [...] I seem to respect idealists who have more of a conscious struggle with good & bad in themselves, a desire to act on noble principles but with a worry the pleasures of life are passing them by at the same time. People who act like they feel 100% selfless and positive all the time are annoying and actually seem extremely shallow.
    Yeah, from what I've observed in myself and others, that kind of shallow idealism and "selflessness" that's driven by moral vanity can be a defense people use to avoid introspection and having to confront their true characters - they avoid the "conscious struggle" you mentioned and just construct pleasing ideas of themselves. I think "annoying and shallow" is kind of a best-case scenario -- low awareness of one's actual character and an unwillingness to be displeasing to oneself can actually allow someone to be a pretty rotten person because they won't admit their flaws or when they've done something wrong.

  4. #4
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    This desire to make the world a better place is pretty common among NFs, ime. I've noticed many E4 NFs have a hard time choosing their fights. E9s seem to have an easier time channelling their energies to worthwhile causes. E1 self-righteousness is self-sustaining and doesn't require much action.

  5. #5
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with making the world a better place. But usually, the people that talk the most about it, ain't doin SHIT except talking. So yes, these people make me want to strangle them.

    I don't know if anyone watches Fargo, but I thought this parable was relevant:



    A rich man opens the paper one day.
    He sees the world
    is full of misery.
    He says,

    "I have money.
    I can help."

    So he gives away all of his money.
    But it's not enough.
    The people are still suffering.

    One day, the man
    sees another article.
    He decides he was foolish to think just giving money was enough.
    So he goes to the doctor
    And says,

    "doctor,
    I want to donate a kidney."

    The doctors do the surgery.
    It's a complete success.
    After, he knows he should feel good,
    but he doesn't,For people are still suffering.
    So he goes back to the doctor.
    He says,

    "doctor,
    this time I want to give it all."

    The doctor says,

    "what does that mean, 'give it all'?"

    He says,

    "this time I want to donate my liver, but not just my liver, I want to donate my heart, but not just my heart.
    I want to donate my corneas, but not just my corneas. I want to give it all away.
    Everything I am. All that I have."

    The doctor says,

    "a kidney is one thing,
    "but you can't give away your
    whole body piece by piece.
    That's suicide."

    And he sends the man home.
    But the man cannot live knowing that the people are suffering and he could help.
    So he gives the one thing he has left.

    His life.






    and does it work?
    Does it stop the suffering?

    You live in the world.
    What do you think?


    Only a fool thinks he can
    solve the world's problems.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  6. #6
    A Gentle Whisper ~MS*ANGEL~'s Avatar
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    @johnnyyukon Well, maybe one person alone cannot solve the world's problems - that might be too overwhelming, as proved in the parable. But one can at least make a difference in his/her own way, using the skills and talents he/she has. For example, one day I wish to open a non-profit music/arts school for orphans and/or children whose families are unable to afford proper food or shelter, let alone a good education to brighten their children's future.

    I hope I can achieve this within the next 10-15 years!
    Only she who attempts the absurd can achieve the impossible... and then some.

    MY BLOGS: https://freestylelines.blogspot.com/, https://tfthdiary.blogspot.com/
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  7. #7
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Maybe what they mean is they see/feel more injustices, inequalities and insensitivities therefore sees a need for change rather than having an arrogant moral superiority.

    I seem to respect idealists who have more of a conscious struggle with good & bad in themselves
    Need to share this with the world would be the next step in 'making the world a better place'.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    This desire to make the world a better place is pretty common among NFs, ime. I've noticed many E4 NFs have a hard time choosing their fights. E9s seem to have an easier time channelling their energies to worthwhile causes. E1 self-righteousness is self-sustaining and doesn't require much action.
    They do? Maybe they have the ability to just pick something without being picky and fight the good fight by simply being habitual?
    .

  8. #8
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    They do? Maybe they have the ability to just pick something without being picky and fight the good fight by simply being habitual?
    Ime, 9s will tend to choose either volunteer work or charity as a way to make the world a better place. Simple, efficient, win-win. 4s are more likely to pick counter-culture fights against some sort of 'evil'. Patriarchy, meat consumers, animal hunters, vaccines, and whatnot.

  9. #9
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    change starts by talking about it and raising awareness though - at least if you really are looking to address the global mindset.

    While i agree that tangibly doing something about it is very much needed, without that awareness you re just carrying water to the sea. Id say both are important and one chooses the contribution thats more up ones alley. I honestly feel i contribute more by writing about cat behavior than when i volunteered at a cat shelter, coz i know im better at the first than addressing the practicalities of the latter
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  10. #10
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    [Not sure if this was meant exclusively for INFPs- apologies if it is.]

    I think it entirely depends on why they want to ‘make the world a better place.’ If it’s for the sake of being perceived by others as ‘that person’ who wants to make the world a better place, then (imo) it’s misguided. They may routinely be doing the right thing for the wrong reason- thereby helping some people along the way with ‘the right thing’- but there’s still something about it that throws shit in the pool. When it’s more about one’s identity than about actually having compassion/being empathetic, then situations which challenge that identity will cause aggression (and the subsequent urge to make someone else’s corner of the world a worse place).

    But I don’t think it’s naïve to actually want to make the world a better place by trying to cultivate mindfulness and awareness of the impact we have on others, though. However miniscule, we do have an impact. I don’t think there’s anything stupid about trying to take responsibility for our own tiny little corner of the world.

    [I’m not purporting to be especially good at taking responsibility for my own impact, I’m merely trying to explain how ‘making the world a better place’ isn’t necessarily stupid.]
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

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