User Tag List

First 5678917 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 248

  1. #61
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    As in a court of law, is it not obvious we need that story?
    Oh, absolutely. But I don't think there is intention to condemn by not presenting it. Rather, I think there is intention to avoid fallacy.

    That, plus everything else I know about Ene and NFJs and what I can glean from the situation doesn't really say "egotistical blindness" to me. It says miscommunication, confusion, frustration, and so on.

    I am interested in your offshoot thread.


    @Ene, glad that was mostly on. My NFJs would be happy to know I've learned SOMETHING over all these years, lol.

    I should clarify:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene
    I think that is true, too, at least to some extent.
    I did not mean to suggest that there is no idealism-seeking to NFJ. Certainly as an NF there is plenty. I think there is just less hesitation with Fe to put a feeling out in the world, and more concern for external coherence and clarity, whereas with Fi-Ne we're all sloppy about it and go over and over again recorrecting ourselves and inserting lots of disclaimers because we want to get the balance just right, and it's very hard.

  2. #62
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Perhaps INFP was in love with the INFJ and yearned for more intimacy?
    Maybe. There's so many maybes.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Ene will have to confirm or deny this, but I thought it was fairly clear by the fact that she is postulating this story to the forum that she, too, assumes that there may be some information here that is missing and unclear behind the INFP's behavior.
    Oh, of course. I didn't mean to harp on about that, @Ene. You can only relate the facts that you've heard. I only meant to observe the INFJ way of telling the story and how that basically means I can't really even discuss the meaning of the friendship problems as mentioned in the OP. It's no one's fault. It just means I'm basically useless, because I'm left with too many questions to give any answers. And I'm not just talking about a lack of insight into the INFP; I don't feel like I have real insight into the INFJ either.

    Again, I'm not angry or seeking to blame anyone. And if others feel that this is derailing too much then I will back off. I know that throwing all this doubt on the matter can be irritating and can seem like an attempt to undermine the whole discussion. It's just the way I process things.

    I've had a lot of NFJs in my life, and one thing I know about them is they, unlike NFPs, tend to present a coherent story as they understand it up front. It does sound final and sometimes that can be aggravating to an NFP when our Ne clearly picks out the "trail" of missing information and our Fi tells us there's no way the story makes sense without more explanation. I did understand where PB was coming from when she said what she said. It felt like an injustice to the INFP to present her side of things as so clearly "wrong" and "irrational", when it can generally be assumed (and should be assumed until proven otherwise) that the INFP is also a person with hopes and pains and compassion, who very likely meant no harm to the INFJ, and who very likely also has a reasonable of a side of the story if we could only see it through her eyes.
    Absolutely. I think that INFJs can be a lot more clear in the communication and I felt like the story conveyed that well. What I also wanted to say is that whatever is going on with this INFP, she is obviously communicating that poorly to the INFJ. That is certainly part of the failure.

    I personally didn't feel a sense of injustice against the INFP per se, but I didn't feel the sense that learning her side of the story would be useful for figuring out what went wrong. So often this stuff can come down to a misunderstanding. I do sometime worry when I sense that the appearance of irrational behaviour is considered enough to condemn a person. In other words, "she's not making sense to me, so she must be the source of the problem". I just wanted to offer a perspective that would add balance to the issue - how there could be a lot more going on that we don't yet know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Yep, anything I presented from INFP's viewpoint would be guesswork, because I'm not an INFP and can't see through INFP's eyes.
    See for me it doesn't matter which type the other person was. Her being a INFP does mean I may have greater insight into her though patterns but it doesn't change the way I have to analyse the information. I have to get inside the head of the person before it will make sense to me.

    While I understand the "feeling" behind her actions, they still seem illogical to me, at least at first glance. To me it makes no sense why somebody 6,000 miles away would feel they had that kind of place in someone's life, regardless of what was picked up on or said. It's not logical. It's not feasible. So, I must be missing something. I have to have body language to interact appropriately. A long distance communication over emails and facebook messages hardly seem like a productive way to carry out a real relationship of any type other than something on the old fashioned pen pal level.
    I feel it will make sense if I knew more - especially with a Judging-dom, because they lead with a Rational function. There has to be a reasoning behind it with a J-dom. This doesn't mean she will be in the right (in fact, it seems more likely that she's in the wrong), or that her rationale has been based on fair expectations or an accurate assessment of the 'facts'. But it also doesn't mean there wasn't a misunderstanding that started the problem.

    It's interesting that the 'feeling' makes sense to you, because it doesn't make sense to me. I can't really understand the 'feeling' behind it without any insight into her thought process. What do you think was the feeling behind her actions?
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #63
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    @PeaceBaby, I'd be interested in that whisper of yours. Feels promising but also subtly wrong about the Pi-dom side. *cutting everything else, for now, otherwise there'd be no point to have a new thread*
    Yes, it will take me many hours to craft this one, so will continue to work on it stitch by stitch as it comes to me and time permits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Let me guess: another "NiJe is doing it wrong" idea?
    I'm equal opportunity like that.

    Too many other factors get involved, like development of inferior Pe to stop tunnel vision and consider new information/alternatives, et al.
    This kind of constitutes part of the point, just as the development of inferior Je is pertinent to JiPe. As I said above, this one will take a while to put together.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I can be clingy too...
    aww

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    That, plus everything else I know about Ene and NFJs and what I can glean from the situation doesn't really say "egotistical blindness" to me. It says miscommunication, confusion, frustration, and so on.
    I don't think it says "egotistical blindness" either as I don't think there's bad intention behind it, and egotistical to me implies a conscious choice. However, let's look at the question presented in the OP: "What I want to know is... what misunderstandings, what functional clashes do you view as the reason behind the ending of this story?" My point is, how can that be answered with what we have to work with? And if we work with what we have, all we can generate are vague generalizations that yield no real answer.

    There's maybe 100 different things that could be going on in that INFP, and some more stuff in the INFJ than what we have access to? So, I think March's answer is pretty much the best quick summary available.

    We would actually have to access the INFP and INFJ in question to know, hear the story through each lens.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #64
    Senior Member Eluded_One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    570

    Default

    Original posted by Ene: Yep, anything I presented from INFP's viewpoint would be guesswork, because I'm not an INFP and can't see through INFP's eyes. While I understand the "feeling" behind her actions, they still seem illogical to me, at least at first glance. To me it makes no sense why somebody 6,000 miles away would feel they had that kind of place in someone's life, regardless of what was picked up on or said. It's not logical. It's not feasible. So, I must be missing something. I have to have body language to interact appropriately. A long distance communication over emails and facebook messages hardly seem like a productive way to carry out a real relationship of any type other than something on the old fashioned pen pal level.
    It's not logical at all. I agree. However, being logical is highly overrated at times. There's more to being human (or in many cases, less human) than being logical. There's this illogical thing called romance. It's overlooking 6,000 miles of distance and bridging that distance with an unlikely bond. Maybe it's the irony that compels the INFP. Many rationals would rather label it as stupid, but there's nothing more stupid than not trying to understand.
    “If you worry about what might be, and wonder what might have been, you will ignore what is.” -anonymous

  5. #65
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    @PeaceBaby and @Southern Kross

    Ok... here's the thing... I love you both but...whenever you see the word INFP, you are acting as if the INFP in the story is you... and then you start making it personal.. Then you are trying to find some "excuse" in the story that would cast the INFP, i.e. "you", in a positive or at least non-negative light... and starting "whining" about how the story is incomplete or one-sided when you can't find any... and needlessly dragging this out...

    This is neither about you nor you feeling better about yourselves... Detach yourselves from the INFP in the story... Just give examples from your past (Si) when you felt emotionally connected to another person (despite being geographically distant from you) and couldn't get back the level of emotional intimacy you desired from the other person... and then try to explain "why\for what reason" you felt that much emotional connection to someone despite unfavorable circumstances and how you felt when you couldn't get back what you desired...

    OP is asking for possible scenarios about why INFP may have acted that way... not a judgment about who's right or wrong...

    Please be mindful that the INFP in the story may not even be an INFP after all but some other type...perhaps it shouldn't even matter for the purpose of this thread...

    I personally think that that level of emotional attachment despite a large geographical distance must imply some kind of emotional starvation in the other side...loneliness, depression, not feeling good about self etc... I don't know if @Ene mentioned to the other person that she was an INFJ and whether that has something to do with it...i.e. whether the other person ascribed some kind of "uniqueness" status to her, hence making @Ene a scarce but prized supply of (narcissistic?) satisfaction for the other...that is to say, did @Ene's INFJ identity become much more important to the other than her real identity\self?

  6. #66
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    calb, I just wanted to say that in no way is a good morning text message smothering under most circumstances. Also, I have a close friend who is a male INTJ. He often sends me a good morning texts. They are often humorous and I like them.
    That is your Fe helping me out, wanting me to feel good right? Do you think they should have called you an Empath?

  7. #67
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Ok... here's the thing... I love you both but...whenever you see the word INFP, you are acting as if the INFP in the story is you... and then you start making it personal.. Then you are trying to find some "excuse" in the story that would cast the INFP, i.e. "you", in a positive or at least non-negative light... and starting "whining" about how the story is incomplete or one-sided when you can't find any... and needlessly dragging this out...
    See, I feared it would come off like that. That's not what is happening. I'm not looking for an excuse, I'm looking for a reason that will make sense. If it sounds personal, it's because in a way I make everything personal. I take what that person feels and make it part of myself; INFP or otherwise. I can't do things any other way.

    This is neither about you nor you feeling better about yourselves... Detach yourselves from the INFP in the story... Just give examples from your past (Si) when you felt emotionally connected to another person (despite being geographically distant from you) and couldn't get back the level of emotional intimacy you desired from the other person... and then try to explain "why\for what reason" you felt that much emotional connection to someone despite unfavorable circumstances and how you felt when you couldn't get back what you desired...
    I could I suppose but it would require ignoring my basic Ne needs/drives. It's hard to do that.

    OP is asking for possible scenarios about why INFP may have acted that way... not a judgment about who's right or wrong...
    Actually that's what I'm deliberately trying to get away from, and apparently failing...

    Please be mindful that the INFP in the story may not even be an INFP after all but some other type...perhaps it shouldn't even matter for the purpose of this thread...
    I agree this could be a possibility. I'm certainly not getting a reading on her and that makes me wonder. She may just have some personal issues that cloud things for me.

    I personally think that that level of emotional attachment despite a large geographical distance must imply some kind of emotional starvation in the other side...loneliness, depression, not feeling good about self etc... I don't know if Ene mentioned to the other person that she was an INFJ and whether that has something to do with it...i.e. whether the other person ascribed some kind of "uniqueness" status to her, hence making Ene a scarce but prized supply of (narcissistic?) satisfaction for the other...that is to say, did Ene's INFJ identity become much more important to the other than her real identity\self?
    Could be, but it makes me wonder why the INFJ never sensed this. If it's that obvious, why the confusion?

    -----------------------------------------------

    Anyway, I think I may bow out of this thread. I think I'm derailing and creating confusion, and the more I try to explain, the worse it gets. Sorry.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #68
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Anyway, I think I may bow out of this thread. I think I'm derailing and creating confusion, and the more I try to explain, the worse it gets. Sorry.

  9. #69
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    ...Anyway, I think I may bow out of this thread. I think I'm derailing and creating confusion, and the more I try to explain, the worse it gets. Sorry.
    Are these Ne checks?

  10. #70
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    That is your Fe helping me out, wanting me to feel good right? Do you think they should have called you an Empath?
    I'm just pointing out what I perceive to be the case. I really dont think text messages are smothering, unless you send a bunch everyday; but a good morning message is not.

    If it makes you feel better, fine.

    If not, tough toenails.

    Your feelings are your responsibility, not mine.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

Similar Threads

  1. [INFP] INFPs and Friendships/Relationships
    By labyrinthine in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 09-07-2013, 12:59 AM
  2. [NF] INFP and INFJ friendship?
    By Ribonuke in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-18-2012, 10:24 AM
  3. [NF] INFP and INFJ Friendship
    By TheEmeraldCanopy in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 02-25-2010, 02:28 AM
  4. Hello -- INFP/INFJ
    By Ruth in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-24-2008, 12:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO