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  1. #51
    Member March's Avatar
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    @PeaceBaby, I'd be interested in that whisper of yours. Feels promising but also subtly wrong about the Pi-dom side. *cutting everything else, for now, otherwise there'd be no point to have a new thread*

  2. #52
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @skylights thank you for this response. I really enjoyed reading it.

    Ene will have to confirm or deny this, but I thought it was fairly clear by the fact that she is postulating this story to the forum that she, too, assumes that there may be some information here that is missing and unclear behind the INFP's behavior.
    Yes, that's it exactly. I do believe there is information missing that makes the behavior unclear to me. I am missing what I am missing and don't know what I don't know.

    I've had a lot of NFJs in my life, and one thing I know about them is they, unlike NFPs, tend to present a coherent story as they understand it up front.
    I'd agree with that.

    t does sound final and sometimes that can be aggravating to an NFP when our Ne clearly picks out the "trail" of missing information and our Fi tells us there's no way the story makes sense without more explanation. I did understand where PB was coming from when she said what she said. It felt like an injustice to the INFP to present her side of things as so clearly "wrong" and "irrational", when it can generally be assumed (and should be assumed until proven otherwise) that the INFP is also a person with hopes and pains and compassion, who very likely meant no harm to the INFJ, and who very likely also has a reasonable of a side of the story if we could only see it through her eyes.
    I am sure that she does have valid points but as you say, I can only present what I know and can only paint it in the picture of current light.

    But Ni-Fe is like Ni-Te, it goes on what it has. It's a real-world function and it uses the parameters it's given to proceed;
    Yes!

    unlike Fi-Ne and Ti-Ne it does not prioritize ideal-seeking over external action.
    I think that is true, too, at least to some extent.

    What the INFJ has here is what they can see from their own eyes. It's what they have... they don't have the INFP's story so they can't present the INFP's story.
    Yep, anything I presented from INFP's viewpoint would be guesswork, because I'm not an INFP and can't see through INFP's eyes. While I understand the "feeling" behind her actions, they still seem illogical to me, at least at first glance. To me it makes no sense why somebody 6,000 miles away would feel they had that kind of place in someone's life, regardless of what was picked up on or said. It's not logical. It's not feasible. So, I must be missing something. I have to have body language to interact appropriately. A long distance communication over emails and facebook messages hardly seem like a productive way to carry out a real relationship of any type other than something on the old fashioned pen pal level.

    Because Fi-Ne has such a drive to present the "ideal", or totally right and balanced, story, NFPs cringe at the clearly unbalanced presentation, but I think it's crucial to note that the intention is not to present the finality, but to present the story to the external world, where it can be changed and reinterpreted as Fe retraces movement according to the new conclusions.
    That's a good way of putting it.

    NFPs would tend to couch this sort of thing in a ton of questions and uncertain language,
    Agreed.

    @PeaceBaby This should be interesting. Yes, I think it would be a good idea to start another thread. And you are right. My motives are not/were not to trick anyone. Thank you for that.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  3. #53
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    Fi becomes clingy, Fe doesn't want to be smothered. Sounds like the stereo type right?
    I meant to rep comment, but I messed it up and hit enter before I had finished, so I just say it publicly. haha...yeah, stereo type or not, it is what it is.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  4. #54
    Member March's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    Fi becomes clingy, Fe doesn't want to be smothered. Sounds like the stereo type right?
    Is there a Fi=clingy, Fe=getoffofme stereotype?

    I thought the sterotype was that Fe is smothering and Fi just wants to be left alone?

  5. #55
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    Is there a Fi=clingy, Fe=getoffofme stereotype?

    I thought the sterotype was that Fe is smothering and Fi just wants to be left alone?
    Do you like good morning texts?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I've been working on a germ of an idea, out of the long-term patterns of interaction (because I've seen this one quite often now) and it's just a whisper at the moment ...
    Let me guess: another "NiJe is doing it wrong" idea?

    The tendencies: In IxFJ Je presents a judgement and Pi finds evidence to support it. In IxFP Ji presents a judgement and Pe looks for evidence to debunk it. There's a start place that each type launches off from, and each type needs to counter-balance that tendency. Pi must examine evidence to debunk Je, Pe must examine evidence to support Ji. It's not about just believing the primary function, but balancing it out. And there's a twist in the aux switch that I want to account for. Need more time on this one, this is incomplete, but if it feels like a launching-off place for more discussion, I will make a new thread.
    Yup! Sure is!

    The one thing I could say is that it might be truer of IFJs than ITJs because of the circularity of Ti, as opposed to the factual evidence-gathering of Te.

    I'm skeptical of your formulation as is, but If you tried to tie this to all PiJe I would be even moreso.

    Too many other factors get involved, like development of inferior Pe to stop tunnel vision and consider new information/alternatives, et al.

  7. #57
    Member March's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    Do you like good morning texts?
    That completely depends on who from and what they expect me to do in return. If I'm away from my husband, I'd love it if he sent me good morning texts. From others, I'd get worried that they'd start resenting me if I didn't respond in kind or expect our relationship to be deeper than I want it to be, with all concomitant obligations. But if I trusted they wouldn't do that, I'd love morning texts but would gently suggest that they're better off sending me early-evening texts if they want me to respond.

  8. #58
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    That completely depends on who from and what they expect me to do in return. If I'm away from my husband, I'd love it if he sent me good morning texts. From others, I'd get worried that they'd start resenting me if I didn't respond in kind or expect our relationship to be deeper than I want it to be, with all concomitant obligations. But if I trusted they wouldn't do that, I'd love morning texts but would gently suggest that they're better off sending me early-evening texts if they want me to respond.
    Well if you ask the other INFJs around, they would claim they don't like it and would feel suffocated. Yet when you Google INTJ smothering, you will run into INFJs smothering INTJs, which I don't get at all. I mention this, because I (supposed to be INTJ) smothered the INFJ in my life.

    So maybe it is something else. I've been going through the list of needs of http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ad.php?t=69144. My 2nd most important need is LOVE/CONNECTION, which this whole scenario smacks of.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calb View Post
    Well if you ask the other INFJs around, they would claim they don't like it and would feel suffocated. Yet when you Google INTJ smothering, you will run into INFJs smothering INTJs, which I don't get at all. I mention this, because I (supposed to be INTJ) smothered the INFJ in my life.

    So maybe it is something else. I've been going through the list of needs of http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ad.php?t=69144. My 2nd most important need is LOVE/CONNECTION, which this whole scenario smacks of.

    calb, I just wanted to say that in no way is a good morning text message smothering under most circumstances. Also, I have a close friend who is a male INTJ. He often sends me a good morning texts. They are often humorous and I like them.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  10. #60
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    I can be clingy too...

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