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  1. #221
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    @yeghor, your take on function theory, does it seem elegant or beautiful to you? I'm asking because I've read that one way the brain decides on what's "true" is by seeing it as beautiful. Like a mathematical proof is sometimes described as beautiful or elegant when it seems to fit in all the right places. It's one of the brain's shortcuts to decision-making. But that element of beauty makes a theory that much more difficult to objectively examine for flaws. I've been there--where a theory of mine was so beautiful to me that I didn't want to let it go, even though I could see that it wasn't fitting with all of the information I had gathered. So, I've found it's good practice to leave room for doubt in all of my theories and to constantly look to see if I'm hanging on to them too tightly because they make sense or are beautiful, but only to me.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  2. #222
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    @yeghor, your take on function theory, does it seem elegant or beautiful to you? I'm asking because I've read that one way the brain decides on what's "true" is by seeing it as beautiful. Like a mathematical proof is sometimes described as beautiful or elegant when it seems to fit in all the right places. It's one of the brain's shortcuts to decision-making. But that element of beauty makes a theory that much more difficult to objectively examine for flaws. I've been there--where a theory of mine was so beautiful to me that I didn't want to let it go, even though I could see that it wasn't fitting with all of the information I had gathered. So, I've found it's good practice to leave room for doubt in all of my theories and to constantly look to see if I'm hanging on to them too tightly because they make sense or are beautiful, but only to me.
    It sometimes feels like a "Eureka" moment... At the moment, this "abomination" is the best that I could come up with to make sense of myself and others in MBTI terms... It seems to fit in my mind on a global scale... There may be rough edges and irregularities upon closer inspection though...

    I understand what you are saying... but despite what other people say, it still makes sense to me so far... I think this kind of MBTI understanding may serve as a tool to help people become more aware of their habits and tendencies...

  3. #223
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Because INFJs try to adjust themselves to accommodate others' preferences and needs...thru introspection... That is "the" Ni-Fe mechanism... Fe detects others' needs and preferences and Ni does the adjusting internally...It's a "reflex" learnt during childhood...
    No I couldn'T... because of the Ni-Fe mechanism I described above... Enneagram 4 is NOT about that mechanism...
    Round and round we go...

    Thru Ni, I do...
    I am wearing a blue shirt. The sky is also blue. Of course, this must mean my shirt is entirely made out of pieces of sky.

    OTOH.. could they.. just could they... be entirely separately occurring phenomena?

    What MBTI type do you think enneagram 3s may be?
    Type 3 does not directly equate with any one MBTI type. No type does.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #224
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post

    Type 3 does not directly equate with any one MBTI type. No type does.
    3s - I know they often get bagged a bit on the internet but a healthy, well-rounded 3 is truly delightful to be around. I think being a So-first means I admire their charm, gregariousness, adaptability and confident competency. I think perhaps this type draws me the most romantically, because they're so good at things I'm terrible at.
    How can you know you are drawn to them IRL and know them well enough to guess their e type but not their MBTI type?

  5. #225
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    It sometimes feels like a "Eureka" moment... At the moment, this "abomination" is the best that I could come up with to make sense of myself and others in MBTI terms... It seems to fit in my mind on a global scale... There may be rough edges and irregularities upon closer inspection though...

    I understand what you are saying... but despite what other people say, it still makes sense to me so far... I think this kind of MBTI understanding may serve as a tool to help people become more aware of their habits and tendencies...
    In the back of my head, I'm still hanging on to my incomplete, yet still elegant (to me) understanding of function theory. My understanding isn't anywhere close to matching function theory at all, and I was trying to approach it from several angles at once, so there are all these loose bits and pieces hanging around. The doubt I'm holding on to to keep me from a complete "I have figured out the TRUTH" moment is that I have yet to read anything by Jung, so I'm basing my understanding on air, for the most part. Well, actually, I'm basing my understanding on what info I have gathered from various sources to date, but excluding Jung, who should be the main source.

    I do think that my personal understanding will add an interesting dimension once I actually read Jung, so it's not a complete waste. But it's only a step. I understand the enthusiasm that comes along with thinking you've figured something out , and it's been hard to dial myself back at times, but it has been helpful for me to step back a bit, take a breather, gather more data, and re-evaluate.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  6. #226
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    @yeghor, another problem that comes up with my own personal understanding of function theory is that I am using the terminology out of context of general understanding, so whatever I'm trying to get across might end up not making any sense to other people. They can't see what's inside of my head so they can't make the same connections, plus, rightly, everyone will assume we're in agreement as to how the terms are defined and the general concepts they stand for so that we can discuss things from a common starting point.


    ETA: I wouldn't worry too much about having your own personal understanding of function theory, though. I think all of us probably have.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  7. #227
    Senior Member Hypatia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Many ENFJs I know in person are not altruists (although they are people-people & nice), but academics or even social climbers of sorts. I would even see the more altruistic ENFJ as more principled than soft-hearted.
    I suspect a person I know is an ENFJ. What causes this?

  8. #228
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    How can you know you are drawn to them IRL and know them well enough to guess their e type but not their MBTI type?
    Please stop. I find this inappropriate.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  9. #229
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I am wearing a blue shirt. The sky is also blue. Of course, this must mean my shirt is entirely made out of pieces of sky.

    OTOH.. could they.. just could they... be entirely separately occurring phenomena?

    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  10. #230
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Hi @yeghor - You have no doubt been feeling like you're hitting a lot of walls lately in your typing. If it's ok with you, can we walk through some of the logic you're using and pinpoint some of where you're potentially interpreting behaviour to type when it doesn't necessarily help trying to type someone? Let me know if you want to go through your typing of me, for example, along with your understanding of Fi.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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