User Tag List

First 111920212223 Last

Results 201 to 210 of 248

  1. #201
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    @Z Buck McFate, @Forever_Jung, @underwaterthing

    Each one of you have offered some very valuable insight. @underwaterthing I love your post and I appreciate the honesty in it so much. I think you have a good take on it.

    I have taken away a humorous notion from all of the interaction on this thread. Please, everyone, take it with a grain of salt and a light heart, but Ni users really should come with warning labels that read, "Sudden detachment imminent." And Fi users should come with a warning label that reads, "Sudden attachment imminent." Okay, don't throw words at me or anything. It just crossed my mind and I thought it was a comical look at our primary functions
    @Ene -- finally have time to read through the thread from the beginning.
    All I can say is, "You rat bastard."
    Hint: I'm an INTJ. That means I lead with Ni, and have tertiary, and therefore deeply unsatisfied, Fi.

    Guess where your bolded remarks leave me?


    ...guess I'd better go polish up the ole' Death Stare (TM).
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  2. #202
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    @Ene -- finally have time to read through the thread from the beginning.
    All I can say is, "You rat bastard."
    Hint: I'm an INTJ. That means I lead with Ni, and have tertiary, and therefore deeply unsatisfied, Fi.

    Guess where your bolded remarks leave me?


    ...guess I'd better go polish up the ole' Death Stare (TM).

    @grey_beard, LOL! I think I'm in good company. Can we have a staring contest now? Can we? Can we? Oooohhh...first one to turn away has to...um....I don't know...eat worms or something.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  3. #203
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    @grey_beard, LOL! I think I'm in good company. Can we have a staring contest now? Can we? Can we? Oooohhh...first one to turn away has to...um....I don't know...eat worms or something.
    @Ene -- go ahead. Your avatar is *cute*.

    Oh, *eye* contact. Never mind.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  4. #204
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Ha! I have the solution!

    I'm just not human. haha....I'm a cyborg.


    EDIT:

    Hmmm...here's a theory...just a theory, but...who knows? It might hold a grain of validity. It's worth a thought. Maybe there is an explanation for not only why INTJs and Fi dominants have issues but for why INFJs and Fi dominants have issues [and would that take into account my issues with ISFPs? They are so sweet and everybody just loves em, but they driver me bonkers in real life.]

    I think that INFPs and INFJs have some very different placement and alignment of functions. An INFJ's strongest function is Ni. INFP's is Fi, and sometimes Fi and Ni just don't gee haul as we say down here in the south. They're like...from two different planets or something. So a dominant Ni whether it's paired with Te or Fe is going to, at times, have trouble communicating and understanding dominant Fi perceptions. It doesn't mean that either is right or wrong, just often hard to wrap our heads around. Fe complicates the issue in that it wants to or seeks to understand because...you know...it's the "right" thing to do, and they are aware that the other person has value and they want so much to be able to see through their eyes but, hey, Fe is auxiliary. Ni is dominant, and there's that Ti, analyzing, analyzing and saying, "This doesn't fit. Where does this piece go anyway? And how on earth did they come up with THAT conclusion?"
    @Ene -- enter that RAREST of creatures (rarer than a unicorn made of diamond with dilithium crystals for eyes which poops cinnamon-covered almonds and dark-chocolate-dipped espresso beans) -- the INTJ personal anecdote.

    In my *limited* deeper interactions with INFPs (IRL and/or online), what happens is that the INFP and I will arrive at either "almost identical" solutions, or "not at all my answer, but given the way the question was put, an perfectly acceptable, even though it's technically, like, all WRONG" solution.

    We get there by totally different means, of course; the closest I can put it is that the INTJ moves like a rook in chess : direct, linear; the INFP moves, well, I dunno, it looks like a chess bishop riding a drunken knight. But darn if it doesn't always end up where *I* do; or if I can't, by cocking my head to one side and squinting, come up with a pretty good *guess* as to at least a couple of the internal milestones on the INFP's aleatory journey of discovery...

    Maybe the INTJ Ni radar, infinitely powerful, uses a combination of Te and Fi to *ping* the INFP's innards, and correctly interprets about half of the reflected signal; maybe the Ne of the INFP, *broadcasts* a strong enough Fi pulse externally that the INTJ sensors, ever hungry for data, pick it up and do the internal database / spiderweb / partial derivative snapshot search-and-match.

    All I know is, of all people other than INTJs (who, after a formal challenge to battle and exchange of credentials, tend to line up in rank order to form an impenetrable shield wall of intellect), the INFPs are those whom I grok most instinctively.

    Go figure.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  5. #205
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by underwaterthing View Post
    I have seen these patterns in some INFJs, but I can't say I've found it typical of them. It sounds like the INFJs you've known are more narcissistic than most I've encountered. Admittedly, my close contact with INFJs in real life has been limited (a few warm but not-quite-deep friendships). I've seen a lot of these cognitive biases you're describing in ENFJs though.
    Interesting. I haven't noticed this much in ENFJs. I've seen a lot of deflection from them, but they usually try to do so with joking & flattery. I think this is typical to varying degrees with average to unhealthy INFJs.


    I think this is a good take on INFJ/INFP conflict in situations where it's mainly the INFJ who is at fault. In my description I was trying to be objective, but I may have overemphasized the INFP's sensitivity and unintentionally made it sound like it's the source of most INFJ/INFP conflict; this is because it's sometimes easier for me to see my own flaws than those of others. (Which is also something that can make some IxFPs, (especially the e9s,) vulnerable to being condescended to and manipulated.)
    YES. I see this & it frustrates me. Being e4, my sensitivity there comes through more as an anger. 9s don't allow themselves to get mad as much, which has its own plusses.

    I've seen some INFJs get testy when their premises are questioned, but more often it seems like they just get silent. Sometimes it's hard for me to tell when an INFJ is subtly rejecting a viewpoint/brushing it off without even considering it vs. when they just need more time to process a differing opinion. Dominant Ni comes with a lot of cognitive strengths and some cognitive weaknesses, and I think one of those weaknesses is that (it's not as flexible as Ne; it settles on certain viewpoints and can be hard to budge. It's not always that the person won't consider different opinions; it's that it's natural for them to have one interpretation of something)* and they can't immediately "bounce" a perspective around like Ne-users can. (From my understanding of Ni vs. Ne; I might be off on this.) I'm guessing healthier INFJs will take a while to deeply process a differing viewpoint before ultimately either rejecting it or incorporating it and shifting their Ni perspective, while unhealthier ones will immediately reject it.
    *Edit: Never mind. I think Ni by itself is very fluid/dynamic, while it's Ni+Je that can be rigid.
    No, I think you were right to begin with. Extroverts adapt more than introverts, who try to make or at least want the external to adapt to them, or will remain indifferent to it. (*this is why socionics is wrong to say Pi-dom share behaviors that Jung & MBTI associates with Pe). The problem with INFJs is if they won't see an outside perspective & you can't reach them with a value-concept (reason in Fe style), then you're dealing with someone who can be extremely irrational with tunnel-vision. This is hard when you're a dominant rational & trying to use lines of reasoning with someone. This conflict exists less with INTJs because of shared Te/Fi I guess & perhaps because the intuition is less people/value-focused, so it's not rubbing Fi territory the wrong way.

    That's interesting that you don't have the same painful sensitivity to being misunderstood that I do; I always thought that e4s were the most hurt by that.
    Oh that's not what I meant. I thought you meant a painful sensitivity towards others, so I meant I am more detached from a personal judgement of them than sensitive to not making one; I'm comfortable leaving it in limbo, & it's more indifference than sensitivity. I also distinguish my personal taste from a value judgment enough to not be sensitive to forming a personal conclusion about someone (if I do). However, because I am sensitive to being misunderstood & unfair, hasty judgements (from those awful first impressions people stupidly rely way too much on).

    I have a weird ability to not find someone personally appealing, but because I didn't form a universal type of judgment quickly, I am able to see enough positive traits that I don't really dislike them either. I find other people a lot more black & white & less distinguishing between "I like someone" and "they're a likable person" or even "they're a good person" or "they're good at X task", etc.

    About INFP e9s vs. INFP e4s:
    I think my sensitivity to being misunderstood partially comes from the e9 uncertain sense of self combined with the Fi need for connection with the self; when someone's interpretation of who I am contradicts my self-knowledge, I sometimes get a feeling that they could be right even though I intellectually disagree. (If I recognize that a criticism is objectively true, it still hurts but it's not as internally disorienting and painful as when I think I'm being misunderstood.) It feels like I'm letting someone else yank around my sense of self (a thing that's especially essential to me as an IxFP) with something that isn't even true, and I resent them for it, and I resent myself for letting them do that to me.
    Maybe e4s (especially 4w5s) feel more resigned to being misunderstood, like they don't even expect most people to get them? Also, maybe their more certain sense of self isn't as vulnerable to feeling tilted by others' misperceptions.
    My sense of self is not as tilted consciously....but I do internalize negative stuff & it sort of comes back to me as some self-criticism. Not until I was older did I realize this. In the moment I can be angry & reject it, but it's like I soaked it up as a sponge & it will leak out as if it originated in me. This is why I am aware that even if someone consciously does not feel hurt by something, it does not mean its not hurtful; things can affect people in ways they are not immediately aware of & may have difficulty tracing the source of later.

    What I notice in e9s is sometimes a conflation of personal taste & moral judgement, as if it's mean or even wrong to dislike anyone, and so you must suppress or transform distaste for someone into some measure of acceptance of them, even if it's just in the form of their potential. I've seen many a 9 with a posse of undesirables clinging to them because the 9 is the only one able to tolerate them & offer some measure of friendship.

    As a 4, you tend to do this conflation in an opposite way - it's almost morally offensive to have bad taste . But feeling outcast in some way can make you compassionate to those undesirables also, but I think there are more barriers to keep you from being over-burdened by it.


    I love your description of Fi and the difference between Fi values and FiTe judgments.
    I relate to what you're saying about holding off on making universal value judgments about people, and I think it's true that e9s are less likely to even form a personal opinion (especially a strong one) right away. I form a tentative impression of someone, but part of me distrusts it, recognizes its fallibility if I don't know the person well, and thinks of possibilities of what the person could be like that could contradict my impression. (Similar to what PeaceBaby said about Pe trying to debunk Ji.) I think maybe e4s trust their impressions more, while still keeping them open to change. I don't trust the impression enough for it to become an opinion, for the doubts to stop dancing around the impression, until I've been around them a while. (And then it takes even longer to make a universal value judgment about them.)
    I relate to this, but this is how I experience my "universal judgement". The personal taste thing is just not about impressions. It's like saying I like a song or not - it's not a value judgment really. Just because I don't personally like something doesn't make it bad or wrong. Perhaps this was learned, because I did used to pity date a bit, and I think honoring your personal preferences & tastes even if it "disqualifies" some from a relationship with you is not "mean" because it's not devaluing someone's worth. It's more like "doesn't suit me".


    I haven't seen much of this yet in INFJs, but like I said earlier, I've mostly had contact with healthier ones. About the bolded: certainly most aren't this narcissistic? I hope not. I know NiFe categorizes people, but I don't think they normally do it in such a self-aggrandizing way.
    About the "peon in their vision" thing - INFJ won't experience it as selfish or using people. They usually think this vision is for some greater good & will not see self-serving aspects of it (which will be well-hidden to many observers as well).


    From my understanding: (Because INFJs are natural Ni users, not Fi users, most can't be as good as most INFPs are at "grasping" people in that deeply personal, microcosmic way. I think their way of understanding people
    is more detached (from an Fi perspective) without really being objective either, but it's equally insightful in a different way.*
    I agree with this, but I don't expect most would (except for NFPs). I wouldn't say I read people well at all; but I understand their expressions, motivations, feelings, etc. This is an area I find INFJs terrible at.

    So I don't know if they're "equally insightful" about people as individuals. You could say that about any type; you can say they're X in "their own way", which may not be untrue, but it makes it hard to note general strengths & differences on a pattern level.


    *Edit: From what I understand, Ni creates maps of reality (including other people) using conceptual impressions, and then Fe fits individuals into roles/categories. Ni's maps of people can be amazingly insightful and accurate, but sometimes to an Fi-user they seem to lack the "essence" of a person that we think our Feeling impressions capture. And of course, it's sometimes grating to IxFPs when we feel like we're being defined by external categories (Je) rather than internal essence (Ji).
    Absolutely. I think the problem with Ni is when it's not informed by Je though. This is more troublesome for INFJs, IMO, because bad Feeling is often harder to spot as distorted than bad Thinking, and it can be manipulated to appear as something positive even if it's not. Contrary to popular belief, Fe is very much in service of the self, because it's part of the individual's ego no less than other type's dom/aux functions. So when Fe is mostly in service of Ni, it can force-fit things or ignore it/cut it out/run from it if it can't be fit. It's not a real harmonizing (or making sense) of the environment that good, rational Feeling does.

    Loosely related: I also think that maybe INFJ empathy casts a wider net (maybe more easily triggered) and is more focused on "knowing" what others are feeling, while INFP empathy has a smaller net but is deeper and more focused on the 'vicarious experience' part of empathizing. (Maybe not; this could be another e9 thing.) But developed INFJs have their own brand of (amazing) depth just like developed INFPs do. INFJs rub me the wrong way occasionally, but I admire their strengths.
    They don't need my admiration. They get enough butt-kissing to last them a lifetime. I find their depth consistently over-rated. Fair enough if it's hidden, but what's on display fails to impress me.


    I meant that the way Ne jumps from one idea to the next related idea (instead of exploring a single idea from multiple angles like Ni) can seem annoyingly random and lacking in focus to NJs, like the intellectual equivalent of bouncing around the room. (But I've also heard INFJs say they find Ne refreshing and inspiring.)
    Yes, but as Fi-dom, we don't necessarily do this. We can stop with an idea & tunnel deep into its meaning & significance, which is something of another angle on one idea (exploring ways of valuing it, especially by being aware it can have different values in different contexts, as if you use Ne to bring in another context on the same idea so as to grasp a more fundamental value & not just a contextual one.) With Fi in service of Ne, I just think there's far less "bouncing", and more exploring until something seems significant to go deeper with, and as you go deeper, Ne continues to bring in more contexts to keep going deeper, not bouncing to something else.

    I don't have any grand point here, just keeping the convo going, as I think you said some interesting things .
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #206
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 sp/so
    Socionics
    EIE Fe
    Posts
    7,980

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Contrary to popular belief, Fe is very much in service of the self, because it's part of the individual's ego no less than other type's dom/aux functions.
    If I wasn't so drained, I'd reply to more of this, but this something I definitely had to make mention of. As an Fe dom, I have to say this is extremely true. One of the biggest things I balk at and dislike about descriptions of Fe and ENFJ's is the idea that they are so big on service to others, and to causes. It's true for some, but I'd hesitate to say the majority. I certainly don't anyway. Fe is a systemizer, much like Te, but it does so in a more subjective manner, and it often involves people (an inheriently subjective thing). It wants things to be ordered, make sense, work well, and ultimately be efficient. To Fe, having others and groups work well and be happy is simply seen as efficient and right most of the time. It makes sense for everything to be that way. It's not the end goal (unless that was explicitly decided on before hand), but something that is often needed or wanted. This is why it's often seen that Fe is there to serve others, because their actions and desires sort of require this "alutristic approach" in order to satisfy what it wants. Ultimately, it wants things to work well, based off what is defined as "well", and that is indeed a self-serving purpose. However, because Fe very much does not want it's negative sides to be seen, this will be quickly covered to make it seem like its serving others. That's not to say Fe's are selfish creatures and nothing else, that's not true at all, but it ultimately seeks to fulfill the self's needs first; all types do that. Interestingly enough, as a side effect of covering, it's not uncommon for an Fe to lose touch, or be completely unable to tell what it's own motivations are in the first place; the self or others? For all the ways I (and others) consider myself to be highly self-aware, in other areas it's kind of shocking how much I am not at all. It's quite easy for me to lose touch and be unable to tell why I want, feel, or do something when I get very focused on it.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  7. #207
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    to be clear, @yeghor, according to you - the super ego, a.k.a. a main element within freud's treatise about how the emotional frameworks operate in all human beings - was actually based on a cognitive function match that persists somewhere between 1 to 3% of the human population...

    how exactly would he have done that mistake? did they kill all the non-INFJs in Vienna?
    I think the higher Ni and Si is in the function stack, the higher the superego strength is in an individual... For instance it should be quite low in you...

  8. #208
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    2,631

    Default

    ^^

    Yes to this!

    That's why I hate the compliment "you're a nice person". The niceness of my outwards behaviors is self-serving, so I don't deserve a compliment for that, and it's separated from the niceness of my heart (that I don't let anyone see but that motivates other things that I do and like to be appreciated for).

    Edit: the arrows are supposed to point to @Hard 's post -- sorry!
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  9. #209
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Interesting. I haven't noticed this much in ENFJs. I've seen a lot of deflection from them, but they usually try to do so with joking & flattery. I think this is typical to varying degrees with average to unhealthy INFJs.
    It may be due to conflict avoidance...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    YES. I see this & it frustrates me. Being e4, my sensitivity there comes through more as an anger. 9s don't allow themselves to get mad as much, which has its own plusses.
    Not all e4s have this kind of intense anger...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    No, I think you were right to begin with. Extroverts adapt more than introverts, who try to make or at least want the external to adapt to them, or will remain indifferent to it. (*this is why socionics is wrong to say Pi-dom share behaviors that Jung & MBTI associates with Pe). The problem with INFJs is if they won't see an outside perspective & you can't reach them with a value-concept (reason in Fe style), then you're dealing with someone who can be extremely irrational with tunnel-vision. This is hard when you're a dominant rational & trying to use lines of reasoning with someone. This conflict exists less with INTJs because of shared Te/Fi I guess & perhaps because the intuition is less people/value-focused, so it's not rubbing Fi territory the wrong way.
    The conflict is expected cause Ni-Fe tries to conjure up a wholistic and generic vision of an egalitarian society whereas Fi desires to be non-generic and unique... and doesn't care about society or others but the self and how the self feels... So Ni-Fe says "the need of the masses outweigh your individual needs", this is the main principle of living as a society... And Fi-Ne says "what's in it for me?"... Of course Fi-Ne's approach is quite rational from the individual's perspective... Too much Fe generalization damages individuality and may move towards the realm of fascism.. So there needs to be a sweet medium where people can express their individuality and at the same time function with relatively less friction and conflict as a whole...

    It's like the human body made up of different cells all having their distinct function and identity yet functioning more or less in a efficient manner as a system... I don't want all cells to be the same but rather that they function in areas where they would be of most use to the entire organism...or at least not be a detriment to the health of the organism... So Ni-Fe's vision can be quite rational from the societal perspective too... It all comes down to living together as a society... We are not living alone by ourselves on an island, isolated from others...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    My sense of self is not as tilted consciously....but I do internalize negative stuff & it sort of comes back to me as some self-criticism. Not until I was older did I realize this. In the moment I can be angry & reject it, but it's like I soaked it up as a sponge & it will leak out as if it originated in me. This is why I am aware that even if someone consciously does not feel hurt by something, it does not mean its not hurtful; things can affect people in ways they are not immediately aware of & may have difficulty tracing the source of later.
    You need to use the hurt you feel to restructure yourself... It's part of adaptation to the people around you, i.e., society... Too much of it is detrimental to the self though...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I relate to this, but this is how I experience my "universal judgement". The personal taste thing is just not about impressions. It's like saying I like a song or not - it's not a value judgment really. Just because I don't personally like something doesn't make it bad or wrong. Perhaps this was learned, because I did used to pity date a bit, and I think honoring your personal preferences & tastes even if it "disqualifies" some from a relationship with you is not "mean" because it's not devaluing someone's worth. It's more like "doesn't suit me".
    You should grant INFJs the same choice...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    About the "peon in their vision" thing - INFJ won't experience it as selfish or using people. They usually think this vision is for some greater good & will not see self-serving aspects of it (which will be well-hidden to many observers as well).
    Give an example to this please... I mostly do it like in the human body example I gave... It's my way of dealing with what I perceive to be chaos, hurt and violance around me... The thing is that most people seem to be OK with chaos, hurt and violance and I feel like as if I am the one who is dysfunctional and abnormal...and cannot cope...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I agree with this, but I don't expect most would (except for NFPs). I wouldn't say I read people well at all; but I understand their expressions, motivations, feelings, etc. This is an area I find INFJs terrible at.
    Give an example how they misread for instance?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    So I don't know if they're "equally insightful" about people as individuals. You could say that about any type; you can say they're X in "their own way", which may not be untrue, but it makes it hard to note general strengths & differences on a pattern level.
    The more you know yourself, the more you can see reflections of yourself, your actions and your coping mechanisms in others...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Absolutely. I think the problem with Ni is when it's not informed by Je though. This is more troublesome for INFJs, IMO, because bad Feeling is often harder to spot as distorted than bad Thinking, and it can be manipulated to appear as something positive even if it's not. Contrary to popular belief, Fe is very much in service of the self, because it's part of the individual's ego no less than other type's dom/aux functions. So when Fe is mostly in service of Ni, it can force-fit things or ignore it/cut it out/run from it if it can't be fit. It's not a real harmonizing (or making sense) of the environment that good, rational Feeling does.
    I think you are unknowingly describing ENFJs here... In INFJs Ni is subservient to Fe Fe is subservient to Ni... Ni dictates Fe... not the other way around... In ENFJs, Fe dictates Ni... Fe-Ni is a mechanism geared towards identifying ways to get that positive Fe feedback and nourishment either from an individual or the society as a whole...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    They don't need my admiration. They get enough butt-kissing to last them a lifetime. I find their depth consistently over-rated. Fair enough if it's hidden, but what's on display fails to impress me.
    Enneagram 4s vice is listed as "envy"... And the description says they also have a hidden desire to be charming, revered and social... Based on that I think you are unaware that you yearn to be ENFJ and hate what you desire but cannot be... That makes you feel bad and you see ENFJs as something unreachable, something too high, something better and higher than you... So, to be able to feel good about yourself and make that "ideal" more reachable, you resort to negative tactics such as devaluing so as to lower ENFJs' status and bring them (or your desired ideal) more or less to the same level with you, thereby making it more attainable or less desirable... The problem is that you are mistaking INFJs for ENFJs in the process..

    You are so saturated and full of yourself that you fail to notice yourself doing this... This means you've adopted a primitive coping mechanism for your feelings of hurt... You falsely believe that it's xNFJs that are causing you this hurt but you need to analyze the real reasons that you are hurting...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Yes, but as Fi-dom, we don't necessarily do this. We can stop with an idea & tunnel deep into its meaning & significance, which is something of another angle on one idea (exploring ways of valuing it, especially by being aware it can have different values in different contexts, as if you use Ne to bring in another context on the same idea so as to grasp a more fundamental value & not just a contextual one.) With Fi in service of Ne, I just think there's far less "bouncing", and more exploring until something seems significant to go deeper with, and as you go deeper, Ne continues to bring in more contexts to keep going deeper, not bouncing to something else.
    Yes Fi-Ne is tries to find alternative ways and explanations about how things and people may make them feel good about themselves...

    I think lying good and risk-taking is related to a high Ne or Se...

  10. #210
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Intense e4-Fi anger

Similar Threads

  1. [INFP] INFPs and Friendships/Relationships
    By labyrinthine in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 09-07-2013, 12:59 AM
  2. [NF] INFP and INFJ friendship?
    By Ribonuke in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-18-2012, 10:24 AM
  3. [NF] INFP and INFJ Friendship
    By TheEmeraldCanopy in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 02-25-2010, 02:28 AM
  4. Hello -- INFP/INFJ
    By Ruth in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-24-2008, 12:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO