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  1. #141
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    @superunknown @Southern Kross @eeak1227dod

    I'd like your take on this enneagram 3 and enneagram 4 being a crossover between ENFJ and INFP thing, if you please...

    Enneagram 4 INFJs don't make sense, I suspect those INFJs may actually be ExFJs...

    Southern Kross you seem to have an eye and fascination for ENFJs... Is Susan Cain one? Her eyes have this drooped, sleepy and martyry look to them?

    superunknown you mentioned to a new member that he\she may be an 3w4 or 4w3 ENFJ (who typed himself\herself as an INFJ by the way)...

    So what's the possibility of enneagram 2s, 3s, and 4s mistyping themselves as INFPs, INFJs or ExFJs not in any order of preference? Cause there seems to be an over-presentation of type 4s regardless MBTI type online... Furthermore, another statistics demonstrate that half the INFJs online are of the enneagram 4 type...

    So any help and input to clarify things, I would appreciate...

  2. #142
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I'd like your take on this enneagram 3 and enneagram 4 being a crossover between ENFJ and INFP thing, if you please...
    I think any similarity between ENFJs and INFPs comes from both being NFs, and more particularity, F-doms. I don't know enough about this other theory to comment.

    Enneagram 4 INFJs don't make sense, I suspect those INFJs may actually be ExFJs...
    Why can't INFJs be 4s? It makes perfect sense to me. I don't understand why you feel such resistance to this idea.

    Southern Kross you seem to have an eye and fascination for ENFJs... Is Susan Cain one? Her eyes have this drooped, sleepy and martyry look to them?
    I haven't read her book and have watched only one lecture of hers, so I can't say. I pretty sure she emphasized the fact she was an introvert, though. Isn't that the whole point of her book?

    So what's the possibility of enneagram 2s, 3s, and 4s mistyping themselves as INFPs, INFJs or ExFJs not in any order of preference? Cause there seems to be an over-presentation of type 4s regardless MBTI type online... Furthermore, another statistics demonstrate that half the INFJs online are of the enneagram 4 type...
    I agree there are way too many people mistyping as 4s, but I think this is not the only factor in their over-representation. 4s are naturally introspective and interested in studying human behaviour, so you're always going to find a lot of them on forums discussions such things.

    Funny, I haven't thought much about certain enneagram types mistyping as certain MBTI types. I have thought about the reverse, but not that. I guess 4w5 in particular tends to correspond with a lot of INFx traits, so that could easily happen. I'm not sure about 2s and 3s.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #143
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I think any similarity between ENFJs and INFPs comes from both being NFs, and more particularity, F-doms. I don't know enough about this other theory to comment.

    Why can't INFJs be 4s? It makes perfect sense to me. I don't understand why you feel such resistance to this idea....
    I explain it from this post forward...

  4. #144
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Eilonwy you identify with INFJ but your enneagram type is 4 but I suggested that you were a Fe-dom... You also sound apologetic towards INFPs, which happens to be your mirror image type if I am correct...i.e. your shadow type, which you may have reconciled with given your seniority...

    Could you please do this test and share your results...?

    http://www.sociotype.com/tests/




    Not sure if I've reconciled with anything due to my seniority , because I don't know enough about any typology system to confirm or deny whatever it is you said, but taking care of my mom has caused some changes in me, one of which is that I had to learn to be comfortable with more spontaneity and less structure. Lots of things that would have seemed important to me years ago, are no longer that important. My priorities have been honed down to the basics.

    I doubt very much that I'm Fe-dom--not an extravert. Though I can be very sociable, it drains me. But, taking care of my mom has affected me in this area too. I've discovered that even an introvert can be too isolated and has some minimum social needs.

    My two cents, which you didn't ask for, but I'm going to give anyway: It seems to me that you have a specific model of how you think an INFJ should come across, and when one doesn't fit the model, then, instead of seeing if your model needs changing, you assume that the person has to fit elsewhere. I think you're too focused on behavior. I think the theory may have merit at a more basic level than behavior, but, even then, people are influenced and changed by many, many things throughout their lives. I have an older sister who is also INFJ. We are different people, even though we were raised in the same family. Where I have noticed similarities are in the way we think through things (we don't come to the same conclusions, but we go through the same process), what we focus on (relationships), the fact that we both are driven to fix what we see as problems in relationships (though we will differ on what needs fixing), plus a few more things that I'm too lazy to detail right now. If I'm an anomaly to you, maybe consider the factors that shaped me--where I grew up (small town Kansas), when I grew up (1960s), my gender (female), my interests and focus, the people I was surrounded by, the things I've experienced--all have influenced my behavior in some way.

    I do admire that you keep asking questions and are staying curious. I have no idea what my test result means, but I hope it provides you with some answers.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  5. #145
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    Thanks... I'm sorry but I couldn't relate to your line of thinking in our earlier exchanges... So I can't understand how that's possible (how we're of the same type but have so different views on things)... I mean, your line of thinking is quite alien to me...

    Something doesn't add up... I keep revising the model though...

    Do you relate to this for instance, or did you one time at least?


  6. #146
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Thanks... I'm sorry but I couldn't relate to your line of thinking in our earlier exchanges... So I can't understand how that's possible (how we're of the same type but have so different views on things)... I mean, your line of thinking is quite alien to me...

    Something doesn't add up... I keep revising the model though...

    Do you relate to this for instance, or did you one time at least?

    You know, it's been a long time since I was 20. I don't remember every relationship and what exactly I was thinking at the time. In high school, my friends and I would talk about people the way the girl in the video was talking--treat me this way and screw you. In my 20's I was a major bitch to my co-workers at the convenience store I worked at. I would write scathing (and I mean scathing) notes telling them just how incompetent I thought they were. At the time I was proud of those notes. A few months later, when I re-read the notebook, I was horrified at what a stuck-up, know-it-all, arrogant asshole I had been. I don't remember if I ever apologized or not. It's very possible I didn't because I was too embarrassed and afraid (hmmm? does that sound familiar?). But, eventually, I realized somewhere along the line that I needed to apologize for my mistakes. Especially if I expected people to apologize to me for their mistakes.

    Have I doorslammed people? Not that I know of. I think my stints of getting angry and shutting myself in the bathroom trying to get my mom's attention when I was a little girl and her ignoring me so that I eventually had to come out on my own kind of cured me of shutting people out. I had to humble myself in order to come out of that bathroom, and then I had to deal with feeling stupid for shutting myself in there in the first place since it didn't get me what I wanted.

    Have I unfairly cut off relationships? Yes. But again, I learned to be a little more responsible each time. Mid-20s, I made a decision to end my relationship with a guy I had been dating for at least a year in order to go back to a guy I had dated previously. I found the guts to tell him face to face, knowing that I was really hurting him. I apologized to him, though that was probably small consolation.

    It's really not that important to me that you believe I'm INFJ. If my line of thinking is alien to you, then it's alien to you. I've done a lot of work on myself throughout the years. I had help seeing things through many different lenses growing up with much older siblings of different types (ISFJ, INTJ, ESFP, xxTx, INFJ) as well as my ESTJ mom.

    ETA: The caterpiller, the cocoon, and the butterfly are all the same individual at different stages, even though they look nothing alike. Perhaps that's what's happening here. (Eh, me, I would be more of a moth )

    ETA2: Perhaps, though, it's important to you to figure out why my thinking seems so different from yours. If that's the case, I'll try harder to help you figure it out.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  7. #147
    Senior Member hazelsees's Avatar
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    @yeghor, Hi. I've not been active lately here and I'm trying to catch up a little. I'm wondering something...
    You seem to be very concerned about people mistyping as INFJs...and I'm just curious why. It seems to be a major concern for you. (although it's possible I've missed your other posts that are not about mistyping and I'm completely wrong.). Anyway, I'm just curious...in a friendly way.

    and I apologize for going off-topic.
    Last edited by hazelsees; 04-29-2014 at 09:22 PM. Reason: apology

  8. #148
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazelsees View Post
    @yeghor, Hi. I've not been active lately here and I'm trying to catch up a little. I'm wondering something...
    You seem to be very concerned about people mistyping as INFJs...and I'm just curious why. It seems to be a major concern for you. (although it's possible I've missed your other posts that are not about mistyping and I'm completely wrong.). Anyway, I'm just curious...in a friendly way.

    and I apologize for going off-topic.
    Not before you do this...

    http://www.sociotype.com/tests/

  9. #149
    Senior Member hazelsees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Not before you do this...

    http://www.sociotype.com/tests/
    haha...okay.
    I'm going to a conference, but will be back Saturday and do it then.
    (you will answer the question then, right?)

  10. #150
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazelsees View Post
    haha...okay.
    I'm going to a conference, but will be back Saturday and do it then.
    (you will answer the question then, right?)
    Sure...

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