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  1. #91
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    Sounds like Fe-aux to me. The sentiment itself may not be a natural one for Fe, but trying to shape cultures and trying to get people to back off by telling them they don't accept the ob they're trying to plant on them IS.

    And even Fe can accept that a culture in which everyone generally takes care of their own emotional well-being is a more relaxed place to be for a person who likes to offer to take care of others' emotional well-being than a culture in which everyone unloads self-care on others.
    I think I am missing something... What did calb do to get a back off warning...?

    About the last paragraph, yeah Fe works towards such an ideal... it doesn't brush it off.. Fe wants to form connections... not to disconnect unless the connection is harmful... or draining somehow... and I didn't see @calb doing anything of that kind... unless there's some kind of past instances that I am not aware about...

    I've found this test (the comprehensive one) to be a very good indicator of type... http://www.sociotype.com/tests/

    Would you give it a try?

  2. #92
    Member March's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I think I am missing something... What did calb do to get a back off warning...?
    I'd hazard: putting the spotlight on @Ene, telling her what she thought the meta-intentions of her statement were, and asking her whether she has an opinion on what other people should've called her. That, to me, has a strong vibe of 'I'm rejecting the framing of trying to establish connection and instead I'm going to discuss you like you're a study object' (which is only appropriate to me in a pretty close relationship where a lot of trust is present!). And reframing the conversation like that precludes any possibility of surreptitiously/organically/smoothly working towards an INFJ kumbaya future, so why not just be explicit in return. Of course I'm not saying this is what @calb intended at all, but I give that approach a bit of a 'back off, buster' response myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Would you give it a try?
    Got a near-equal chance of INFp and INFj, with the extroverted versions of both as options 3 and 4. Lekker handig, as the Dutch would say. That said, the second section threw me off completely with its loooong answers where I always agree with half of the one and half of the other. And I didn't get what the 'hot or not' section was all about, even though I read the description. Maybe I'll try again later when my brain cells are functioning again.

  3. #93
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    Sounds like Fe-aux to me. The sentiment itself may not be a natural one for Fe, but trying to shape cultures and trying to get people to back off by telling them they don't accept the ob they're trying to plant on them IS.

    And even Fe can accept that a culture in which everyone generally takes care of their own emotional well-being is a more relaxed place to be for a person who likes to offer to take care of others' emotional well-being than a culture in which everyone unloads self-care on others.
    First, I'll address the Fe issue.

    @yeghor and @March...March, I think you're right.

    I decided long ago that I prefer to be around people who can take care of their own emotional well beings. I personally feel like the discovery of "truth" is more important than catering to feelings. I prefer to help people see the truth about their good qualities [I say that because most of the world is ready, willing and able to tell others what's WRONG with them.], and everybody's got some, in hopes that the truth will set them free from the bondage of fluctuating emotions. I don't mean I don't care about people. I do, but it's not up and down and all that. It's just more of a "steady as she goes" kind of thing.

    I don't like walking on egg shells. That's why I have a hard time with out of balance Fi, I guess. I don't like the notion that something innocently said will be taken as a personal criticism when it wasn't intended to be.

    I realize I can't fix everybody's broken past, wounded hearts, etc. All I can do is say, "Here's the glue." It's up to them what they do with it. If we went around trying to "fix" everybody, we'd go insane and forget who we were ourselves. The only person I can "fix" is me. I do like to help others see the potential that I see in them, but that's more about "seeing" than feeling.

    And now for @calb, I didn't want him/her to back off. I wanted him [her] to bring it on! haha...I actually enjoyed our conversation. I like friendly banter and wit. I had fun with the exchange, kind of like sparring with rubber knives or playing tag with a toy sword, just a little edge, but nothing too sharp

    Yeghor, I actually got EII this time! I picked the smiley people and nature pics!
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  4. #94
    metamorphosing Flâneuse's Avatar
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    Just some thoughts - I still have a lot to learn about cognitive functions so a lot of this might be inaccurate. Part of the reason why I'm posting it is so I can hear feedback, so feel free to point something out if it strikes you as wrong.


    A lot of this relates to what @skylights said previously.

    A possible source of conflict between INxJs and IxFPs (especially INFPs): In their interactions with others, Ni+Je wants to fill in the blanks as much as possible, while Fi is very sensitive to being prejudged and takes it very personally. From what I've both read and seen in real life, INxJs naturally make these big intuitive leaps and tend to form pictures of something even from a small amount of input. As long as the INxJ is healthy, these pictures of reality are dynamic (and are sometimes nearly accurate from the beginning anyway); they change as more input comes in, so their prejudgments aren't really a big deal in the long run. Basically, they judge quickly but are aware of the lack of 100% accuracy in those judgments and are open to changing their opinions. Unhealthy INxJs are a different story, but I won't get into that here.
    For IxFPs, however, judgments are usually a big deal and, except in cases in which someone crosses their personal values, are formed more slowly. They're very sensitive themselves to feeling like their voices are being lost in translation; being incorrectly judged feels like being erased/buried under other people's incorrect assumptions, and feels painfully depreciating, especially when they value the person judging them. Because of this personal sensitivity combined with their empathy, IxFPs are also extremely sensitive about seeing others being incorrectly/unfairly judged and will stand up for them if they believe it's happening. For an INFP who has enough NeTe to balance out FiSi, when getting to know someone they will juggle various possibilities about what that person could be like instead of forming a single but also dynamic vision like a healthy INxJ. As the INFP learns more, Te narrows down the possibilities until they finally make a definite judgment about the person. Because Te is the INFP's inferior function, reforming those Te judgments is usually a pain in the ass so they tend to be pretty static, or at least not often changed. (Unless the INFP has very good use of Te.) (There are also more layers to this that I'm not going into detail about; usually there are little Ne doubts dancing around and trying to pick the Te steel locks.)
    I guess my main theory is:
    Because IxFPs are so sensitive to being judged, and also because 1) their own inner experience with using (inferior) Je suggests that it's very final and judgmental and 2) the flexibility of Ni in the healthy INxJ isn't always externally obvious, the judgments of the INxJ can come across as offensive, closed-minded and arrogant to those IxFPs who don't understand the INxJ's strategy of forming a single, dynamic vision (which has nuances that are difficult to articulate) instead of juggling multiple possibilities and waiting to form judgments like a Perceiver (esp. NP). This sensitivity can come across as prickliness or "boo hoo, poor me" egocentric hypersensitivity to INxJs. Similarly, INxJs can miss the depth in the IxFP's microcosmic way of thinking, understanding people, and forming values; also Ne in NFPs can make them appear shallow and wishy-washy to INxJs who don't understand the Fi core underneath Ne means we can juggle possibilities without actually changing our minds all the time.

    Another general clash:
    - To some Ne-users, Ni+Je can appear too inflexible (even though it's not if the individual is healthy). I believe that to some Ni-users, Ne (especially without Ti) can seem like mentally bouncing around the room at 100 mph.
    - As previously touched on, INFPs tend to view the self as a microcosm through which others can be understood, and I think this approach can seem too limited to the INxJ and their more macroscopic approach.

    - These are generalizations and, assuming they have validity, there are still going to be exceptions in every case.
    - What I said about INFPs forming judgments slowly can be thrown out when someone crosses their deeply-held personal values. In that case, we can be VERY judgmental.

  5. #95
    Member March's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    And now for @calb, I didn't want him/her to back off. I wanted him [her] to bring it on! haha...I actually enjoyed our conversation. I like friendly banter and wit. I had fun with the exchange, kind of like sparring with rubber knives or playing tag with a toy sword, just a little edge, but nothing too sharp
    Haha, yeah, that's another possibility altogether. It's sometimes hard to distinguish someone getting annoyed by a playful poke and someone poking right back in the same mood. I blindly followed @yeghor's 'What did calb do' question, while I wasn't even convinced calb had done anything - just that IF you were annoyed, this would be my guess why. Playfully poking back in a Fe way slipped my mind as an option there.

  6. #96
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I decided long ago that I prefer to be around people who can take care of their own emotional well beings. I personally feel like the discovery of "truth" is more important than catering to feelings. I prefer to help people see the truth about their good qualities [I say that because most of the world is ready, willing and able to tell others what's WRONG with them.], and everybody's got some, in hopes that the truth will set them free from the bondage of fluctuating emotions. I don't mean I don't care about people. I do, but it's not up and down and all that. It's just more of a "steady as she goes" kind of thing.

    I don't like walking on egg shells. That's why I have a hard time with out of balance Fi, I guess. I don't like the notion that something innocently said will be taken as a personal criticism when it wasn't intended to be.
    How old were you when you decided that? Fe users also have fluctuating emotions... they can connect with their shadow Fi from time to time... Fe is just a "static, mechanical front"... You don't have any emotional fluctuations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Yeghor, I actually got EII this time! I picked the smiley people and nature pics!
    Why did you pick smiley people and nature pics?

  7. #97
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    First, I'll address the Fe issue.

    @yeghor and @March...March, I think you're right.

    I decided long ago that I prefer to be around people who can take care of their own emotional well beings. I personally feel like the discovery of "truth" is more important than catering to feelings. I prefer to help people see the truth about their good qualities [I say that because most of the world is ready, willing and able to tell others what's WRONG with them.], and everybody's got some, in hopes that the truth will set them free from the bondage of fluctuating emotions. I don't mean I don't care about people. I do, but it's not up and down and all that. It's just more of a "steady as she goes" kind of thing.

    I don't like walking on egg shells. That's why I have a hard time with out of balance Fi, I guess. I don't like the notion that something innocently said will be taken as a personal criticism when it wasn't intended to be.

    I realize I can't fix everybody's broken past, wounded hearts, etc. All I can do is say, "Here's the glue." It's up to them what they do with it. If we went around trying to "fix" everybody, we'd go insane and forget who we were ourselves. The only person I can "fix" is me. I do like to help others see the potential that I see in them, but that's more about "seeing" than feeling.

    And now for @calb, I didn't want him/her to back off. I wanted him [her] to bring it on! haha...I actually enjoyed our conversation. I like friendly banter and wit. I had fun with the exchange, kind of like sparring with rubber knives or playing tag with a toy sword, just a little edge, but nothing too sharp

    Yeghor, I actually got EII this time! I picked the smiley people and nature pics!
    I can't help to think that socionics got it right with IEE-ENFp and IEI-INFp. e.g. the shadow functions of INFJ (MBTI) is the ENFP (MBTI). Like you would switch between them. That is just my own theory but I keep thinking that the INFJ can go into ENFP mode and also go mothering me and be all clingy if they want to, but then return to their natural state of being an INFJ. Fe tough love and all.

    About the banter, was that your 8-wing sticking it's head out? Or do you think it is just a thing that happens between INFJ (dare I say ENFP-mode) bantering with the INTJ (assuming that the INTJ can go ENTP mode too for a while)?

    What do you y'all think now?

    @March, what's with the Dutch, are you speaking the Dutch?

  8. #98
    Member March's Avatar
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    Haha, @calb, yes, I R speaking the Dutch.

    Sometimes.

    Don't tell anyone, though.

    Here, have a smokescreen: Trop drôle. Sehr wichtig. очень хорошо.

  9. #99
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I read this last night and it makes my flesh crawl.

    Like many a story that comes through an INFJ lens, it is colored with a perspective that paints most thoughts and actions from the INFJ side as being correct, proper, loving & giving, set with 'appropriate' boundaries that are violated by others (but only because the INFJ is so 'loving & giving' they can't help but bend over ass-backwards for other people), angled from the additional perspective of overworked, under-appreciated martyr.
    Agreed. It made me want to barf. Yet another INFJ seeing themselves as perfect & bogged down with hanger-ons they are just too kind to ignore? Ugh.... These people's inability to see themselves is frightening.

    Possible functional clashes:
    - Fe presuming all kinds of stuff & projecting BS (unable to interpret things outside of Fe protocol), over rates self (especially in terms of supposed "giving")
    - Ni arrogance & extremely narrow viewpoint
    - Inferior Se braggy arrogance
    - Fi extreme privacy & inexpression which appears inactive on the outside, strong dislike of braggy arrogance
    - Ne boredom in hearing others yack on about dull details of their lives
    - Inferior Te raw expressions of irritations (although the description of it sounds too passive & manipulative; FiTe is direct & scathing).

    Suspicious:
    - IxxP wanting that much consistent & lengthy contact
    - IxFP making & expressing value judgments about someone's decisions in a guilt-trippy way (reeks of Fe)
    - IxxP complaining about aloofness (IxxPs are aloof)
    - IxxP worried about status with someone (reeks of Fe )

    Not convinced this person is INFP. Probably just an unhealthy IxFx being pegged as INFP because it's the catch-all category for such people.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #100
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Agreed. It made me want to barf. Yet another INFJ seeing themselves as perfect & bogged down with hanger-ons they are just too kind to ignore? Ugh.... These people's inability to see themselves is frightening.

    Possible functional clashes:
    - Fe presuming all kinds of stuff & projecting BS (unable to interpret things outside of Fe protocol), over rates self (especially in terms of supposed "giving")
    - Ni arrogance & extremely narrow viewpoint
    - Inferior Se braggy arrogance
    - Fi extreme privacy & inexpression which appears inactive on the outside, strong dislike of braggy arrogance
    - Ne boredom in hearing others yack on about dull details of their lives
    - Inferior Te raw expressions of irritations (although the description of it sounds too passive & manipulative; FiTe is direct & scathing).

    Suspicious:
    - IxxP wanting that much consistent & lengthy contact
    - IxFP making & expressing value judgments about someone's decisions in a guilt-trippy way (reeks of Fe)
    - IxxP complaining about aloofness (IxxPs are aloof)
    - IxxP worried about status with someone (reeks of Fe )

    Not convinced this person is INFP. Probably just an unhealthy IxFx being pegged as INFP because it's the catch-all category for such people.
    What if both sides were mistyped? Edit: Would that change how you approach to all this?
    Last edited by yeghor; 04-24-2014 at 03:02 AM. Reason: Edit

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