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  1. #11
    Junior Member Cognitive Cartograph's Avatar
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    Thank you for your positive outlook, solipsists. I agree he is mature and has a lovely disposition.

    He had expressed doubts about his ability to connect with people, Werebudgie. I told him that I thought he had many people skills and gave specific examples of where I had seen these at play. I expressed why I felt connected to him and complimented him on what I thought were some cool personality traits he possessed.

    I asked a few very casual questions about hobbies, decor preference and music tastes. Tried to leave them as open ended as possible.

    I was fascinated by my husband's aversion to teasing so don't mind any questions you have about it. He had one of the best sense of humour's I have ever encountered and was very down-to-earth so it initially surprised me when he took teasing so seriously. In time, I came to realize he was feeling it as a personally directed attack and I felt his pain. Thus, I was careful to play in a way more appropriate to his needs.

  2. #12
    Junior Member Cognitive Cartograph's Avatar
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    Thank you also Werebudgie, for explaining your thought process when you are in a space of transition before responding. I am hesitant to act based on the fact you do not know if the same applies to my situation. Nonetheless, each increased brick of insight adds to my foundation of INFJ understanding.

  3. #13
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    What you told in your OP reminded me of this...

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WwECMDXtSiM

    Quote Originally Posted by Cognitive Cartograph View Post
    I too would feel it was a betrayal to repeat his actual words so thank you for your understanding in that regard. I teased him when he was telling me his dreams of old age. I thought it was really clear that it was a playful, appreciative building on what he was saying. But, I realized my mistake as soon as he said he was saying "dumb things".

    I wasn't worried because he wrote me saying how easy I was to talk to and he revealed more personal stories/insecurities. Also, because he said that I could write him casual or heartfelt. But, after I wrote him again is when he disappeared. Thus, my apology.
    You are evading telling the exact nature of the dialogue and transgression, by pinning it on your desire to protect him...which makes me wary of you...

    You need to control your reflex to lash out on people...he sensed it in you and distanced himself...this is assuming that the typings are correct...

    In any case let him go... He'll reinitiate contact if he desires to...
    Sent via Tapatalk

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cognitive Cartograph View Post
    Thank you for your positive outlook, solipsists. I agree he is mature and has a lovely disposition.

    He had expressed doubts about his ability to connect with people, Werebudgie. I told him that I thought he had many people skills and gave specific examples of where I had seen these at play. I expressed why I felt connected to him and complimented him on what I thought were some cool personality traits he possessed.

    I asked a few very casual questions about hobbies, decor preference and music tastes. Tried to leave them as open ended as possible.
    I can't explain exactly why, but think I actually kind-of-sort-of instinctively get how this whole situation could lead to "not knowing how to respond yet." Hmm, it's like: The pain from the teasing amidst vulnerability, the content of the teasing and whatever it brought up in/for him, followed by the opposing information from you (you saying the opposite of the teasing in that letter you just described) - I could see how all of this could function as some sort of information and emotional overload that needs sorting through. And I know from my own experiences, and from some things other INFJs here have said, that it can take us considerable time to figure out how we actually feel about things that happen.

    I was fascinated by my husband's aversion to teasing so don't mind any questions you have about it. He had one of the best sense of humour's I have ever encountered and was very down-to-earth so it initially surprised me when he took teasing so seriously. In time, I came to realize he was feeling it as a personally directed attack and I felt his pain. Thus, I was careful to play in a way more appropriate to his needs.
    Yeah, it is weird, isn't it? It is pretty out of character for me overall, but I do tend to feel teasing as mean/cruel even if it's not meant to be, and it hurts. And when someone - particularly someone I'm close to - says something I feel as mean, it doesn't just go away even if I tell myself or they tell me they didn't mean it. I take it into myself and consider it as if it (or what I think it is) is the truth, instinctively challenge myself to accept that it could be true. It echoes inside of me, like it's bouncing around in there for a while. Does that resonate with what you knew of your husband?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cognitive Cartograph View Post
    Thank you also Werebudgie, for explaining your thought process when you are in a space of transition before responding. I am hesitant to act based on the fact you do not know if the same applies to my situation. Nonetheless, each increased brick of insight adds to my foundation of INFJ understanding.
    There's so much variation between different people, and so much rich context in any situation of personal connection ... I think it's unwise to assume that I really understand or that my personal perspective is directly or truly applicable here. I for one appreciate that you care enough about your friend to seek to build a foundation of INFJ understanding.

  5. #15
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I also don't respond well to teasing. Even if I intellectually recognize that the person didn't intend it to make me feel exposed and embarrassed about something I already feel bad about, or it makes me feel as if someone whose opinion I care about thinks poorly of me in an area where I wasn't expecting them to, it's still hard to shake off the emotional reaction. Often I can recognize that making it into a big deal is counter productive and makes the teaser feel like crap. On the other hand, stuffing it down doesn't work well either. I'll try to rationalize it away, but it takes time for it to wear off on an emotional level.

    Regarding the reply thing - the more something matters to me, the longer it takes me to respond. His delay could indicate one of several things: more time and data needed before he know how he feels, appreciating what you wrote and not being sure how to respond properly, or simply having a whole pile of things using up time or emotional energy.

    I'd say, assume the best. Also, the fact that you acknowledged that you thought you may have made a mistake counts for a lot, rather than acting as if it didn't happen.

    I don't know if this helps either, but I've found that many INFJs ( myself included) don't usually resond in real time in their interactions. Instead they are meeting you with the reaction to the last conversation that took place, more than the present one which is occurring and which will be mulled over and processed after. In that sense, I think INFJs appear to be changeable, stubborn or grudge holding because they keep bringing unresolved stuff up to be revisited, or they have changed their mind after the last conversation, etc, but the processing lag is really to blame.

    I can't imagine if he's too offended that he would have continued opening himself up to you after. Be patient.

  6. #16
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cognitive Cartograph View Post
    Condolonces for your loss...but you seem to have an abundance of INFJs around you...something's amiss...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cognitive Cartograph View Post
    We socialize in groups, text and email. Occasionally we talk on the phone (I am not a huge phone user). He is very successful (read: busy) at work and has a large extended family as well as friends. Knowing he has a lot on his mind and plate, I have often asked him if he needs some time where I can back off and come back? He has always said no.
    What does he do for a living? A large groups of friends is not what you'd expect in an INFJ... Speaking for myself, I am reclusive...and have less than a handful of "true" friends that I maintain contact with...I do not have any enthusiasm to hang out with people outside that circle...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cognitive Cartograph View Post
    Recently, he had begun opening up to me more about his feelings. In a spoken conversation he said his feelings were dumb after I got playful and started teasing him (yes, sigh, I know).
    He must have made himself vulnerable around you and expected the same in return...perhaps you felt that but were fearful of making yourself vulnerable too so tried to deflect it by making fun of it (a defense reflex), which then hurt him...which is not dependent on him being INFJ or any other type by the way...I think all people carry this kind of core self which can get hurt when they reveal it...it contains their failed hopes and desires...

    In my earlier post, I've projected my own hurt and disappointments on you...I am sorry for that...I still would like you to clarify the exact nature of your "playfulness" though...i.e. the way you deflected his expectation for you to make yourself vulnerable as well...

    As for his remark about his future hopes being dumb, it may signify that he sees being dumb as a weak\bad trait for his identity...so he prizes intelligence, which may mean that he is either a Ti-dom or a Ti-aux... If he's extraverted, flamboyant, lively and chatty people person IRL, he may be an ExTP...or if he is silent and keeps (his energy) to himself he then may be an IxTP...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cognitive Cartograph View Post
    After, he wrote me and said I was incredibly easy to talk to. Which he appreciated and wished he could be more like. Then he emphasized I could share things and write to him.

    So, a little under a week later I wrote to him and he has since disappeared.
    He may still be harboring resentment towards you... Perhaps he will reinitiate contact but don't hang on it too much... He may have moved on already...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cognitive Cartograph View Post
    So, I thought about what I know of the INFJ mind and then spent days reading YOUR thoughts and replies to others.

    I waited a bit and sent a short message apologizing for teasing him, saying I truly appreciated what he had said. I also said that I was sorry that I had not just listened to his feelings and had suggested ways I thought he WAS good at what he said he was not, because he knows himself and maybe he just wanted a hearing ear.

    Still nothing.

    In the past he would have answered the same day.
    ^This may not be related to INFJs at all... What are the basic traits in him that makes you think he's an INFJ... There's also this misconception that only INFJs doorslam/cut contact abruptly...

    But ExxPs and IxxJs all have that reflex to either drive people away by lashing out or withdraw into themselves when they feel hurt... It's just the nature of the reflex that changes I guess... IxxJs in particular withdraw and cut contact abruptly... If you keep pressuring and triggering them (or any other people for that matter), they may get enraged and blurt out all their pain and resentment on you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cognitive Cartograph View Post
    I was worried because I am very complimentary he might have thought I was interested in him. But I always have been, he is equally complimentary, he knows I am still grieving and I can't imagine him throwing away a friendship over two communications and mere hypothetical?

    So, how best to proceed INFJ's? Particularly you males of the species, either sex who withdraw, really ALL are welcome!

    Would it be kind to drop a line saying there is no need for any response unless there is a problem, so that if he is mentally taxed right now that relieves at least one burden? Should I wait a while and send a funny video with no message just to show all is ok on my end. Or should I just leave it completely to him?

    Thank you so kindly for considering the issues of this ENFP as I (or at least I try to) understand how much effort and space it costs you!
    So you've already contacted him over text...you have to wait for him to respond...if he doesn't respond in like 10 days or so, conclude that he moved on and distanced himself from you...so you move on as well...

    And the next time you see him, ask him if he could explain what's going on...if he doesn't want to or deflects it, make peace with him in your mind...you aren't compatible and it's not the end of the world...Don't press to initiate contact...Go on about your life...

    By the way, does you thinking him being an INFJ affect your approach to the whole thing in any way? Would you be more at peace if he wasn't an INFJ but another type...?

    And please do share how you concluded him to be an INFJ if that part of the equation is critical for your feelings about the whole issue...

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I also don't respond well to teasing. Even if I intellectually recognize that the person didn't intend it to make me feel exposed and embarrassed about something I already feel bad about, or it makes me feel as if someone whose opinion I care about thinks poorly of me in an area where I wasn't expecting them to, it's still hard to shake off the emotional reaction. Often I can recognize that making it into a big deal is counter productive and makes the teaser feel like crap. On the other hand, stuffing it down doesn't work well either. I'll try to rationalize it away, but it takes time for it to wear off on an emotional level.
    Another addition to the pattern. What is this in relation to our cognitive processes, I wonder? Perceiving-dominant inner world plus Fe-aux maybe? Anyway, I completely relate to what you wrote here.

    I don't know if this helps either, but I've found that many INFJs ( myself included) don't usually resond in real time in their interactions. Instead they are meeting you with the reaction to the last conversation that took place, more than the present one which is occurring and which will be mulled over and processed after. In that sense, I think INFJs appear to be changeable, stubborn or grudge holding because they keep bringing unresolved stuff up to be revisited, or they have changed their mind after the last conversation, etc, but the processing lag is really to blame.
    I agree with this processing lag thing, though for me it's not a reaction to the last conversation so much as something broader. But in any case, not a real-time response. My INFP has had to adjust to the fact that I'll bring stuff up "out of the blue" later because I've been mulling it over for a while. And IMO fidelia's right, it's not grudges, stubbornness or changeableness, but rather the processing lag that causes it. I think we take in a LOT of information as unprocessed material in any given moment or interaction.

  8. #18
    Junior Member Cognitive Cartograph's Avatar
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    Thank you so kindly yeghor, fidelia and Werebudgie for your rich insights. Fidelia and Werebudgie, I could relate to your thoughts on 'teasing' and how it affected my husband greatly.

    I have to tell you that many of you were right My friend phoned me!

    He is away right now (I was not aware) and was not upset with me at all at all. He was busy and mulling the many things I had said over.

    He appreciated my apology (tho he didn't say if it had been necessary or not) and was more open than he has ever been. He even invited me to a friend's wedding social when he gets back. This is a first, him initiating something, not our mutual friends.

    He doesn't like talking on the phone, nor do I, but it went really well. My fears are allayed.

    yeghor, I think this renders some points redundant but please know that my discretion is not a cause for suspicion. In younger incarnations of myself I was freer with friend's information and hurt them. I have learnt with maturity to set boundaries and be somewhat more private so that friend's truly can trust me to be discrete with their trusted thoughts.

    I concluded my friend was an INFJ after he typed as such. (Although I would have surmised that in any case )

    I agree with you that all of humanity shares a core vulnerability and we deflect. Ain't it the truth!

    I do have INFJ's in my life but I am an ENFP and have lived in many places with a huge circle of friends. Thus, my INFJ posse is a tiny percentile. Sad, but the INFJ is a rare but precious commodity.

  9. #19
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cognitive Cartograph View Post
    Thank you so kindly yeghor, fidelia and Werebudgie for your rich insights. Fidelia and Werebudgie, I could relate to your thoughts on 'teasing' and how it affected my husband greatly.

    I have to tell you that many of you were right My friend phoned me!

    He is away right now (I was not aware) and was not upset with me at all at all. He was busy and mulling the many things I had said over.

    He appreciated my apology (tho he didn't say if it had been necessary or not) and was more open than he has ever been. He even invited me to a friend's wedding social when he gets back. This is a first, him initiating something, not our mutual friends.

    He doesn't like talking on the phone, nor do I, but it went really well. My fears are allayed.

    yeghor, I think this renders some points redundant but please know that my discretion is not a cause for suspicion. In younger incarnations of myself I was freer with friend's information and hurt them. I have learnt with maturity to set boundaries and be somewhat more private so that friend's truly can trust me to be discrete with their trusted thoughts.

    I concluded my friend was an INFJ after he typed as such. (Although I would have surmised that in any case )

    I agree with you that all of humanity shares a core vulnerability and we deflect. Ain't it the truth!

    I do have INFJ's in my life but I am an ENFP and have lived in many places with a huge circle of friends. Thus, my INFJ posse is a tiny percentile. Sad, but the INFJ is a rare but precious commodity.
    It appears that I've put my foot in my mouth...I am glad all is well...

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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cognitive Cartograph View Post
    Fidelia and Werebudgie, I could relate to your thoughts on 'teasing' and how it affected my husband greatly.
    Thank you!

    I have to tell you that many of you were right My friend phoned me!

    He is away right now (I was not aware) and was not upset with me at all at all. He was busy and mulling the many things I had said over.


    He appreciated my apology (tho he didn't say if it had been necessary or not) and was more open than he has ever been. He even invited me to a friend's wedding social when he gets back. This is a first, him initiating something, not our mutual friends.
    Wow. Yeah, from what I can tell, INFJs tend not to initiate stuff like that, so it seems he trusts something about your connection.

    I'm so glad that this resolved as it did.

    And thank you for the thread. I've appreciated the opportunity to reflect on my own experiences and hear about other INFJs' experiences. Getting things up and out into words can be really useful for me.

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