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  1. #21
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    When I apologize, it's usually for one of 3 reasons:

    1) I sincerely think I've done wrong and I feel obligated to be honest about it.

    2) I'm attempting to diffuse a confrontation because I don't think the other person can handle it.

    3) I'm attempting to diffuse a confrontation because the other person is boring me and I'd just like them to shut up.

    I don't do #3 very often--more likely I'll just drop the subject without further comment.

    Many times I do believe I've done wrong and, as I expect other people to own up to their mistakes, I demand the same of myself.

    Sometimes I think that the person is more important than the topic at hand, or than my expression of feelings on the topic. Many people are hurting pretty badly, and truth doesn't *have* to be expressed with all the sensitivity of a jackhammer. If my opinion on something is very important, and the person signals that they aren't able to handle my opinion in the manner I've expressed it, then I'll attempt to back up, repair the damages, and express that opinion in a more useful fashion.

    At that point, my apologies have to do with being the bigger person and not demanding that they take steps they claim they are not able to handle. Maybe they could handle those steps, but it's not my job to force them to. If it's someone I know quite well, I can better determine when they are able to take those steps. Online, I really hardly know anyone so I think it's safer not to risk causing people more pain than they already face.


    And, substitute, I agree with targo about "the world" seeming to scorn sensitivity. I think most of us--whoever we are and whatever type--feel we've been scorned for being who we are. The fact is that people tend to say negative things more quickly than positive ones. The person who berates you for lacking sensitivity is unlikely to tell targo what a wonderfully sensitive person she is. And the one who scolds targo for being too sensitive is unlikely to show open admiration for your bluntness and straightforward honesty. Unfortunately, it's the negative that more often gets voiced.

  2. #22
    ~*taaa raaa raaa boom*~ targobelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    That just sucks... for you I mean

    FWIW, I often look to people like you as role models, cos unlike some people who take their MBTI type as an excuse to lean even more towards their preferences, I tend to use it as a way to see where my failings and weaknesses are and work on them. And since I know my weaknesses involve sometimes seeming cold and detached and overly analytical, I tend to look towards warm, caring and kind people as role models.

    I think it's wrong for your husband to be that way with you, and I reckon most people would agree. It doesn't sound like a very ENTP-ish trait to me, to be so controlling and unaccepting of diversity. To me it's like a fundamental part of me to completely accept people as they are and not try to change them.

    THANKS Like you I also try to see where I fail and work on them


    As for my husband he is only like that with me... the entp/enfp isn't the best of matches as far as personalities go. He accepts me to a point, but he wants to fix me. Pull me out of my 'funk' so to speak.
    ~t ...in need of hugs please...
    Jung Test Results
    Extroverted (E) 63.16% Intuitive (N) 60.53% Feeling (F) 84.38% Perceiving (P) 87.1% ~Your type is: ENFP

  3. #23
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    This is weird because even though I am quick to apologize if I feel the urge, I am also way more confrontational than my INTP. He has talked me out of burning more than one bridge.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    This is weird because even though I am quick to apologize if I feel the urge, I am also way more confrontational than my INTP. He has talked me out of burning more than one bridge.
    Wouldn't that be the J in motion - closure?
    Verbal IQ Test

    SubFacor IQ score = 65
    Subscale percentile = 1

    You appear to have a very limited vocabulary and lack the ability to identify the correct responses for a variety of different questions. A deficient vocabulary can hinder you in many ways; you may struggle to find the correct words when speaking, fail to understand what others are communicating to you, or come across as inarticulate to others.

  5. #25
    Senior Member girlnamedbless's Avatar
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    Personally, I've found that NFJs don't apologize as much as NFPs. Since the J is the judging trait, NFJs tend to stick to their strong opinions. I've had debates/discussions with a couple of INFJs before, and man do they stick to their guns.. never really apologized either. (Not that I expect them to.) On the opposite hand.. my INFP friend apologizes ALL the time.. like if I give her a ride home, she'll apologize.. and each time I tell her if I didn't want to do it, I wouldn't! She's also more uncomfortable in a discussion of conflicting views as compared to the NFJ. So I think the J vs P has a lot to do with it.
    I bet they'll put something in the air tonight, just to light your face.

  6. #26
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlnamedbless View Post
    Personally, I've found that NFJs don't apologize as much as NFPs. Since the J is the judging trait, NFJs tend to stick to their strong opinions. I've had debates/discussions with a couple of INFJs before, and man do they stick to their guns.. never really apologized either. (Not that I expect them to.) On the opposite hand.. my INFP friend apologizes ALL the time.. like if I give her a ride home, she'll apologize.. and each time I tell her if I didn't want to do it, I wouldn't! She's also more uncomfortable in a discussion of conflicting views as compared to the NFJ. So I think the J vs P has a lot to do with it.
    Yes I agree with this, and may go as far as to say it affects many P's, including SP's and TP's. I know a lot of SP's who will apologize even if you accidentally hit their head or something, as if to say "Oh pardon me o great one, that my stupid head had the audacity to be where your arm chose to swing!".... but that could just be general Britishness...

    Sometimes I perceive that someone's non-plussed with me and though I can't figure out why, I might apologize anyway just to smooth things over, depending on the context... I mean, if I've got to work with them and an actual friendship isn't on the cards b/c of professionalism etc, then it's easier really to just keep things smooth and stroke them down, otherwise it gets impossible to work when they're all prickly. Of course when it's someone who is particularly prickly, I may find myself apologising a lot, so they'll probably come to see it as a trait of my character, when it's just what they bring out in me...

  7. #27
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Here's an example:
    Knock knock on door.
    T: Yes.
    F: Park, do you have a moment?
    T: Yes.
    F: Am I disturbing.
    T: No.
    F: I'm not sure if it's appropriate to ask you this. I know you have a lot on your mind today. However, if it's not too much trouble....... I'm *not* saying it has to be today nor tomorrow and if you would rather I came back and asked another time that's fine.........

    I think it's cute. I understand the considerate thoughts behind this behaviour.......but gosh it can annoy me.

    Similar to when I receive an e.mail which I expect contains some bad respond or bad news. I quickly skim through the bla bla..... until I react *however* or *but*.

    E.g.
    Dear Park
    While we have enjoyed working with your company and have appreciated the interpersonal contact.........are *still* open to co-working with you in the future bla bla .......
    bla
    bla
    bla

    However...........and it's after the *however* the essential part starts.
    Oh, Park, this was a "Nasal Coffee Squirt" moment! Ugggh.

    Now I'm going to be paranoid of the times I get too apologetic myself...

    I am reading the rest of the thread with great interest, although I don't have time to ponder and respond at the moment...

    I will say that I feel like Substitute -- I know the NFs are talking about how they feel expected to be less emotional and personal and all of that by society, and I do that that pressure is there, but really, the pressure comes from both ends... I've felt a lot of pressure to "be nice" and not so cold all the time. I think context has a great deal to do with when the pressure becomes more apparent.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I will say that I feel like Substitute -- I know the NFs are talking about how they feel expected to be less emotional and personal and all of that by society, and I do that that pressure is there, but really, the pressure comes from both ends... I've felt a lot of pressure to "be nice" and not so cold all the time. I think context has a great deal to do with when the pressure becomes more apparent.[/SIZE][/SIZE]
    It's definetly a two way pressure. I've too been called cold, unemotional and selfish by people close to me more times than I care to remember and compared to them, *I am*. There are emotional needs and desires I'll never be able to fullfill without violating myself, that's just the way it is and I plan to live the rest of my life being perceived by some as a cold, selfish person and as others as a kind bla bla...insert other virtues person. If nothing else, at least I can try and be coherent to myself (and that can be difficult enough standing alone).
    Verbal IQ Test

    SubFacor IQ score = 65
    Subscale percentile = 1

    You appear to have a very limited vocabulary and lack the ability to identify the correct responses for a variety of different questions. A deficient vocabulary can hinder you in many ways; you may struggle to find the correct words when speaking, fail to understand what others are communicating to you, or come across as inarticulate to others.

  9. #29
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Wouldn't that be the J in motion - closure?
    More than likely.

    I'll add, too, that it's only online that I've been accused of being too sensitive. IRL, I've been accused more than once of being too cold, etc, especially when I was young and less comfortable with any display of emotion.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    More than likely.

    I'll add, too, that it's only online that I've been accused of being too sensitive. IRL, I've been accused more than once of being too cold, etc, especially when I was young and less comfortable with any display of emotion.
    I think introverts can be perceived that way at first hand regardless of type. Being *too* sensitive or *too* cold is allways relative to ones surroundings. So question allways is what to use people's perceptions for - if anything.
    Verbal IQ Test

    SubFacor IQ score = 65
    Subscale percentile = 1

    You appear to have a very limited vocabulary and lack the ability to identify the correct responses for a variety of different questions. A deficient vocabulary can hinder you in many ways; you may struggle to find the correct words when speaking, fail to understand what others are communicating to you, or come across as inarticulate to others.

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