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  1. #171
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I'm such a meanie NF . I don't apologize much. Occasionally I "over explain" what seems to be a misunderstanding so no one has sore feelings caused by poor communication. However, I'm not someone who says "I'm sorry" a lot. I've actually had family get mad at me for my lack of apologizing. I tend to let time soothe and use actions to show remorse, unless it's something stupid like stepping on your toes (literally), then I may apologize.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  2. #172
    Senior Member Space_Oddity's Avatar
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    I think that the over-apologizing isn't really related to type, because it has deeper roots than type. I, for once, apologize when I feel it's needed and fair and don't feel "humiliated" by that at all, but for example I never apologize for my opinions, even if they're controversial. (It's almost strange, because I really never feel any need to sugar-coat these subjects, and it's actually my ESTJ boyfriend who sometimes finds it offensive! )

    However, the reason why I don't think this is type related is the fact that a friend of mine who apologizes the most is an INTJ. It's because back in her childhood, she didn't feel appreciated enough by her parents and always felt she's causing them troubles, so she kind of got used to "apologizing for her existence". Even though the situation gradually improved, the apologizing became sort of a bad habit of hers that she's kept until now.

    But to be honest, I also know an INFP who apologizes more than needed, but I think it has different reasons - she was raised by a gentle ISFJ mother and she probably just learnt to be very polite as a little kid.
    Her head hung down
    Gazed at earth, finally keen,
    As the rabbit at the stoat,
    Till the earth was sky,
    Sky that was green,
    And brown clouds passed
    Like chestnut leaves along the ground.

    - SUSAN ANN AND IMMORTALITY, T. E. Hulme

  3. #173
    Member Ethelred the Unready's Avatar
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    Thread resurrection still going on

    I do apologize much to much and if anybody tells me that they find it annoying - I apologize for that too. Vicious circle, no less...
    We could learn a lot from crayons. Some are sharp, some are pretty and some are dull; some have weird names and all are different colours, but they all have to live in the same box.

  4. #174
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    it lives! My old thread lives...!


    ...but why?


    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly View Post
    I feel I mess up all the time so I apologise. Then someone tells me off for apologising and I apologise for apologising and it goes on and on...

    With me I think it's down to a lack of self esteem. I don't know about other NFs but I'm quite insecure and not very self-assured, so sometimes I feel I have to apologise if I think what I'm about to say might cause offense or oppose other people's views in some way (I start a lot of sentences with "I'm sorry but..." when expressing my P.O.V).
    I'm very careful not to hurt other people's feelings.
    And when apologising for a sudden outburst of emotion...it's because I want to be able to "hold it together" and I find it shameful when I can't. I even used to apologise to my counsellor for getting emotional! ;P
    I can actually identify a lot with that... but I was raised in the land of Fe, and some of it stuck to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chunes
    If you want someone to push you back, go challenge an ESTJ.
    That's okay. They're at the other extreme. how about a happy medium, where someone can stick up for their own viewpoint in a nice, pleasant, kind way, without seeming consistently apologeti? It makes it difficult to even be sure what the viewpoint is.

    I've also been surprised by INFPs before, who claimed they had asked me something or told me something... but it was so couched in NF speech that the question was completely lost and I didn't even know what I was agreeing to. I'm not bitching to bitch. I'm trying to work through a communicative/relational sort of issue so that both sides can be understood.

    I'm not here to push you. You'll push me and I'll fall over like a wet noodle and you'll push me some more and I'll smush into the ground and you'll like it!
    If that was the case, I wouldn't have made this thread three years ago!

    When you're done trying to dominate me maybe you'll come to your senses and realize I only wanted to hug you the whole time.
    eeeep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Space_Oddity
    I think that the over-apologizing isn't really related to type, because it has deeper roots than type. I, for once, apologize when I feel it's needed and fair and don't feel "humiliated" by that at all, but for example I never apologize for my opinions, even if they're controversial. (It's almost strange, because I really never feel any need to sugar-coat these subjects, and it's actually my ESTJ boyfriend who sometimes finds it offensive! )

    However, the reason why I don't think this is type related is the fact that a friend of mine who apologizes the most is an INTJ. It's because back in her childhood, she didn't feel appreciated enough by her parents and always felt she's causing them troubles, so she kind of got used to "apologizing for her existence". Even though the situation gradually improved, the apologizing became sort of a bad habit of hers that she's kept until now.

    But to be honest, I also know an INFP who apologizes more than needed, but I think it has different reasons - she was raised by a gentle ISFJ mother and she probably just learnt to be very polite as a little kid.
    I wouldn't say "deeper roots," because it sounds like you're simply dismissing my consistent experience now... even in this thread.

    I would just say there is a multiplicity of things that impact how people develop, and type is one major contributor, but environment obviously is another major player. (Note how earlier in this post I mentioned how being raised by Fe-perspectived people really left me with a lot of pervasive feelings such as what Holly described.... and I don't know if those things will ever STOP being part of my personality, as they were anchored in childhood and have lingered for a few decades.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Afkan
    Ti is depressing, if its not familiar, to an NF. Its like opening your eyes in a room completely void of light, after living an entire life of light and happy sunshine. You get what I mean, right? I don't think Ti is a complete representation of reality, but it is reality, not idealism.
    Yes, I agree and "get" that part. For some reason, we're more focused on the "reality" aspect even if we've got idealistic leanings, and for the INFPs I've known, it seems to be more the other way. It's more comforting to live in the gray because it feels "real," where to live in light, if it seems "manufactured" to us, is unpleasant underneath even if it's still light on the surface. (and I am just talking perspective here, I understand that to you the light feels like a place that is also "real" and more where you want to be, in order to function positively.) I think TP shrugs off a lot of the muck that FP might be more susceptible to... which means we can afford to not be as idealistic, it doesn't really bother us to deal with it and see it in all of its ugly splendor.

    The Xntps in my life have shared w/me what they are trying to illicit, just a friendly intellectually stimulating conversation. With practice I have really come to enjoy that sort of thing. Prior to practice, i always thought a close entp friend (for example) was just prodding for structural deficiencies in our convos.
    Admittedly, at younger ages, the NTP *is* probably doing that at least in part. Life eventually educates the TP to understand that such structural analysis openly engaged is not always the best way to interact with people on relational levels, even if it is an appropriate method for testing 'truth statements.'
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #175

    Default Why Do NFs Apologize So Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethelred the Unready View Post
    Thread resurrection still going on

    I do apologize much to much and if anybody tells me that they find it annoying - I apologize for that too. Vicious circle, no less...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    it lives! My old thread lives...!


    ...but why?
    In amusing irony?

  6. #176
    Senior Member tkae.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by targobelle View Post
    yeah what she said.....


    I hate confrontation..... hate hate hate it.... yup that I do.....

    Sometimes I think that if I have an opinion that goes against yours then you will be offended by it and then won't like me anymore.... You know Jen my husband has the exact same complaint, that I never fight, that I back down too early and too easily, it's a pet peeve of his towards me.
    This.

    My one rule in life is to never be a source of conflict.

    One really bad habit I've picked up in finding myself and developing as an INFP was caused by an English class (that was my "home" in school) where the rest of the class were cruel and oppressive. They'd constantly tell me that I was wrong and that I was stupid and that I should just shut up instead of expressing my opinion.

    It finally got so bad that the teacher got visibly tired of trying to deal with them while at the same time have the patience to deal with my difficulty expressing my thoughts and feelings clearly.

    So I reacted to it by learning to unconsciously dig my heels in instead of folding, so that even if I were wrong I'd stand my ground, that it's my opinion, so it's valid even if it's wrong.

    I've fixed it over the years so that I'm back to where I was, where I back too easily, but when I feel like I'm being ganged up on or being dismissed too quickly, it'll trigger. But it's more of a defense mechanism, kind of like the Russian's "Dead Hand" system.

    But yeah.

    That's not to be confused with my value landmines. I don't know any INFP that would apologize for someone triggering those. The best scenario you can hope for is a peace treaty that creates a North Korea/South Korea situation. But we'll fight to the death over that. And we might apologize that we yelled, but asking us for any more than that is pretty much re-stepping on the landmine.

    I dunno why I apologize though. I mean, it's because I'm sorry, so I say I'm sorry, but I don't know why I'm sorry
    "Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away." -Ekaku Hakuin
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  7. #177
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    because all NFs are pregnant and hormones make us feel remourseful
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #178
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Sigh. The one thing I see in common in literally every NF I talk to online or in real life is that, as soon as they come out with a strong reaction to something, as soon as I push back on it (in a nice but firm way), they back-pedal and just seem to fold on me.

    (I think Toonie is the only NF I can think of off the top of my head who does not consistently do this... but she always had to be different, you know. )

    Sometimes NFs apologize to me just for expressing their viewpoint. My one RL friend apologizes to me for "getting angry" or "raising his voice" -- and somehow I missed his entire debacle. Even his worst outrages don't even equal half of the normal human being's slight glimmer of irritation.

    I love y'all to death, NFs are some of my favorite people! Definitely more sufferable than some of the NTJ stuff that goes on.

    But I don't understand. Why? I mean, I even love how sensitive NFs are to people in general... but sometimes it gets frustrating, when I want to talk about something or a discussion really needs to be had, or would be beneficial, so I "push" a little bit or just plunge into the conversation -- and instead of matching the push, the NFs just melt away.

    Just... Oh, I don't know.
    One thing I think some/most, dare I say all? NF's could use is a mind to mouth filter. I project that 82% of all NF apologies would never be uttered if they spent at least 5 seconds of mandatory thinking before they opened their yappers. They'd quickly (hopefully) realize that they don't need to be apologizing for every ill they encounter, because we all know E = sh*t happens, right?

    P.S. My inner realist is feeling warm and fuzzy at the moment.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #179
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm such a meanie NF . I don't apologize much. Occasionally I "over explain" what seems to be a misunderstanding so no one has sore feelings caused by poor communication. However, I'm not someone who says "I'm sorry" a lot. I've actually had family get mad at me for my lack of apologizing. I tend to let time soothe and use actions to show remorse, unless it's something stupid like stepping on your toes (literally), then I may apologize.
    I concur, I am also similar to this. I am way more likely to go into analyzing mode and try to understand the "problem" and how I can "fix" it or assist. My ability, willingness and awareness of when to apologize for things in social contexts is not so good.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #180
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    Because saying sorry helps mitigate the feelings of shame, regret, and guilt that arise within me whenever I believe I'm inconveniencing, upsetting, or offending someone else.

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