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  1. #51
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Yes, as I understand it and also very centered around the human element. And while I cannot speak for others, I know that I have a tendancy to humanize other things, to think of them in such terms while keeping in mind what I am doing. Electrons in a shell have persona, lol, they are dudes spinning around in their own little community. It is how I make dry things less dry. I am always shocked when people take such things literally.
    Very interesting.

    Perhaps this is the difference between having primary Ne as opposed to having primary Fi, I tend to see the transcendent rules of the universe in all of its infinite things, lol, people and myself including. :P
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    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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  2. #52
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Very interesting.

    Perhaps this is the difference between having primary Ne as opposed to having primary Fi, I tend to see the transcendent rules of the universe in all of its infinite things, lol, people and myself including. :P
    When I was a child learning about how the human body works, I would see a control center in the brain where the cells where people and little people working in all the other organs. The Earth a large mother with all the creatures as her children, but also the organs/cells of her body. The universe a holarchy of interworking, equally important parts. Te can step outside of this and take a different look.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    I'm a bit confused.

    The way they tought us the Te, Ne, Fi stuff at work was as follows:

    E/I, S/N, T/F, J/P.

    If you are an extrovert (E), then your dominant function is extroverted. If you are introverted, then your dominant function is introverted (I).

    Your dominant function is one of the two middle functions, which are S/N, and F/T. This is directly tied in with whether you are a perciever or a judger (P/J). If you are a perciever than your dominant function will be one to deal with your perception of the world which are either Sensing or iNtuiting. If you are a judger, then your dominant function is one in which you judge things with either a feeling or thinking preference.

    well I suck at explaining but rock at noticing patterns so this is how it works through example.

    ENTP = Extraverted Perciever... So the dominant function will be extraverted intuition (Ne).

    The second function is always the opposite of your extraversion/introversion, and it is the letter that was not selected as dominant. So in this case: Thinking is introverted and is the second dominant function.

    The third one is the opposite of your second function. So this person would be extroverted Feeler (Fe).

    Fourth function is the opposite of your first function, so introverted Sensor (Si).
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You guys keep saying that INFJ is introverted intuition and that really conflicts with what I learned at work, so I am not sure what to follow.

    Based on the formula I learned:

    INFJ = Introverted Judger so function one will be F/T and it is Feeling in our case so it is (Fi) because it is introverted.

    function 2 = extroverted and it is intution so (Ne)

    function 3 = introverted sensing (Si)

    function 4 = extroverted thinking (Te).

    Correct me if I am wrong please because this is very confusing.

  4. #54
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    When I was a child learning about how the human body works, I would see a control center in the brain where the cells where people and little people working in all the other organs. The Earth a large mother with all the creatures as her children.
    I feel you.

    Each of us are essentially living "sacks" consisting of an aggregate of systems, and we happen to live in and be a part of one large Supersystem-of-all-systems.
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    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  5. #55
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    This is one the things I cannot stand the most about dealing with people, those who watch me and immediately react once they've determined they cannot get the proper cues out of me, and their efforts from that point on seem to be trying to rein me in (sometimes I haven't even opened my mouth yet!) . It just makes me totally resistant to anything they've got to say after that point and I want to get as far away from them as possible. I feel a deep repugnance deep in every part of my being towards their desire to bring me into line and mediate (reason?) me into their notion of how I should behave. And if the person tries to pursue me after I try to retreat, ugh, ugh, ugh!
    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    I think dissonance was referring to particular times when Fi threatens to bother others or harm the carefully balanced interpersonal relationships that Fe has worked so hard to preserve.
    yes, exactly. someone said this earlier -- Fi is only truly accountable to itself. it's (sometimes) too unpredictable to me and threatens the tranquility i try to maintain.

    for me, i can pinpoint things in the environment that prompt my feelings (almost all of the time). so when i resolve conflict with another Fe user, we can clearly and concisely (Ti) state the logical progression of emotion in a situation.

    resolving conflict with an Fi user is harder since their feelings largely correspond to their own internal state at any given moment.

    plus, i had a pretty traumatic childhood due to my mom's unhealthy tertiary Fi, so i know it at it's worst.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    My mom and my sister I strongly believe are Fe, they feel the pain and emotions of those they encounter, but they don't necessarily process what that other person must be going through and why, they are kind of like emotional sponges, I am too, but there are cognitive thought processes that are simultaneously going on as I am "feeling" the person.
    i've always thought of it the opposite way. when an Fi person empathizes, they hold the emotions of others to their own standard for feeling. an Fe user, while empathizing, holds another person to the feeling standards that they can see or have observed.

    so i always viewed Fe as the more empathetic function

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Do you need Ti or Te to determine whether things are true or false?
    I mean like if somehow Ti or Te didn't exist then would people be unable to determine the truth?

    I strongly value truth/knowing the truth so I'm pretty in tune with it but I have no idea if that's becuase I have strong Ti or Te or whatever.
    anytime anyone consciously deems something "true" or "false", they are using a T function by definition. T literally does not do anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    Heart is right. Fi is very much concerned with truth. But a "personal" truth.. a truth that has personal relevance... right?
    Fi is only concerned with truth if the internal standard says so. so healthy Fi users will value truth. but the internal standard can really be anything. and any actual truth/false judgment is gonna be the work of T.

  6. #56
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Dissonance, do your research on empathy please!!!

    Empathy is the capacity to recognize or understand another's state of mind or emotion. It is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes", or to in some way experience the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself. It may be described metaphorically as an emotional kind of resonance or mirroring.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #57
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    plus, i had a pretty traumatic childhood due to my mom's unhealthy tertiary Fi, so i know it at it's worst.
    Yeah, I had the same but with my mother being Fe and her Ti shadow. Never knew what the rules would be or how her state of mind or mood would be. Much sympathy on that.

    i've always thought of it the opposite way. when an Fi person empathizes, they hold the emotions of others to their own standard for feeling. an Fe user, while empathizing, holds another person to the feeling standards that they can see or have observed.

    so i always viewed Fe as the more empathetic function
    I have always felt Fe to be incredibly invasive if unhealthy, especially if they NEED to give me some kind of emotive response or help that I don't want. There seems to be no way to redirect them without offending them and they may very well flip into anger or rejection at that point.

    I always fear being invasive and will wait until someone gives me some kind of cue about what their needs are, otherwise I tend to bury my own empathy for them and keep it inside lest I invade them.

  8. #58
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Dissonance, do your research on empathy please!!!
    i'm confused.

    the point i was trying to make is that it would be harder for Fi people to put themselves in others' shoes because Fi works on the empathizer's OWN standard.

    Fe people empathize based on the standard they see. so if i see someone with a completely different value set get sad about something that i wouldn't feel sad about at all, i would still empathize because i can see that they are sad. an Fi user wouldn't necessarily empathize with feelings that don't correspond to their own.

  9. #59
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    You don't understand Fi then. I can feel others emotions but they don't compel me to MIRROR them in my decisions or actions. I carry deep empathy like sadness for some people years after they've gone from my life, I get overwhelmed with empathy and I want to let it go but it won't go.

    EDIT: One thing I notice with the Fe I know is that if someone is sad, they seem to feel a NEED to try and make that person happy. I don't feel a responsiblity to control the emotions of another, I tend to feel instead a a desire to talk with the other person and help them get to the root of what is going on and the truth of what they feel.

  10. #60
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    You don't understand Fi then. I can feel others emotions but they don't compel me to MIRROR them in my decisions or actions. I carry deep sadness for some people years after they've gone from my life, I get overwhelmed with empathy and I want to let it go but it won't go.
    yeah, i mean, i wasn't trying to say that an Fi user is incapable of feeling empathy for someone without their exact values. i was more trying to point out the functional difference between Fe and Fi.

    when an N function gets involved with an Fi user's empathy, they can find a context to make sense of another's feeling so that it's in line with their internal standard. but Fi can't do that by itself.

    Fe, by itself, wouldn't be able to empathize with someone if their feelings didn't line up with the external standard (so a non-normative feeling would be cast aside automatically). but paired with N, they can find a context in which to make sense of it, etc. etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    EDIT: One thing I notice with the Fe I know is that if someone is sad, they seem to feel a NEED to try and make that person happy. I don't feel a responsiblity to control the emotions of another, I tend to feel instead a a desire to talk with the other person and help them get to the root of what is going on and the truth of what they feel.
    yes, i ALWAYS want to do something about it. if nothing can be done about it, why bother? (this is analogous to a Te user not caring about truth unless it's implementable or visible.)

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