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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Interesting. Never thought of it that way. Helps further sort out feelings that seemed like Fi .
    Now, the NFP's are usually associated with "championing causes". So is this more about changing people's opinions, or is it just changing behavior and policy, regardless of whether the people's opinions are changed? (I for some reason thought Fi would be the one to try to change others opinions).
    The ultimate goal for an ENFP would probably be to help people to see the world more clearly. We don't change people normally. We give them the information they need to be inspired to change themselves. And that doesn't mean convincing them with charisma to make choices, just where they are missing the truth.

    It's a mistake a lot of types make looking at ENFPs. We are NFs, but we are close to ENTPs. With Ne we map connections for a living in a compulsive manner. If we help you it is normally something to do with connections. We create or fill in links in emotional or general understanding.

    And Fi (if you look at it in a really cold way) just means we look at the core of things. The truths spend far too much time staring you in the face. Which makes it hard to avoid some things and move on. Lying to yourself is sort of like hiding in the middle of a sporting field in daylight. It's a pretty futile exercise.

  2. #152
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Interesting. Never thought of it that way. Helps further sort out feelings that seemed like Fi .
    Now, the NFP's are usually associated with "championing causes". So is this more about changing people's opinions, or is it just changing behavior and policy, regardless of whether the people's opinions are changed? (I for some reason thought Fi would be the one to try to change others opinions).
    Sounds more like Ne. Fi itself doesn't care about external instantiations of their cause.

  3. #153
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    It drives me nuts when I start feeling secure around Fi types they eventually get angry and I never have a clue that they actually are unhapyy, because their expression seems more Te wich makes ME feel unhappy because they innapropiatly are acting cold. Some I ask myself wether Fe really is fake or if it's not Fi that is that.

    For example in this thread I see ENFP saying "YOU SHOULD DO SOME RESEARCH".... is this when you are upset? Why the hell be rude? Just tell the truth instead.

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorkan View Post
    It drives me nuts when I start feeling secure around Fi types they eventually get angry and I never have a clue that they actually are unhapyy, because their expression seems more Te wich makes ME feel unhappy because they innapropiatly are acting cold. Some I ask myself wether Fe really is fake or if it's not Fi that is that.

    For example in this thread I see ENFP saying "YOU SHOULD DO SOME RESEARCH".... is this when you are upset? Why the hell be rude? Just tell the truth instead.
    It's just a type conflict. When you guys get confident you often start organising and compartmentalising. For some reason Fi doesn't like to be part of it because from an Fi point of view it can look like the people are dismissed in the name of the cause. And we don't like objectification or dehumanisation. It isn't really that, but relative to an NFP it is. It's the whole looking at the core thing always again. With ENFP the person is never simplified to a just piece in the strategic puzzle, they more around in the puzzle with all their complexity and links still in tact. Like I sometimes think it is funny to say we are less accurate about detail, because we bring the full object to the table when working a problem rather than the shadow. Most other types miss some links because they play around with just the projections of the object, focus on one part then the next. It's also why the obvious link isn't always that obvious to us, not because we don't see it but because it is sitting there with another thousand. Those IQ test questions that ask which is the odd one out have this effect also because you end up tossing up on which difference the writer would see as more important rather than looking for an odd one out. The detail limitation seems to come from not seeing the trees from the forest unless they have a good reason to stand out as important.

  5. #155
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    I see your post and understand perfectly what your saying. It seems it is a big clash between us, even if I recognize your example in the bottom with my own Ni to some extent. Though I do get the feeling that whatever I say is not good enough or will never be good enough, because I'm focused at "do the right thing" (works in the moment) and your focused at "be yourself" (longtime happiness).

    I have an ISFP friend that I've hung with awhile now and he actually seem to appreciate alittle of my confidence (as long as we have the same opinions).

    Am I fair?

  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorkan View Post
    I see your post and understand perfectly what your saying. It seems it is a big clash between us, even if I recognize your example in the bottom with my own Ni to some extent. Though I do get the feeling that whatever I say is not good enough or will never be good enough, because I'm focused at "do the right thing" (works in the moment) and your focused at "be yourself" (longtime happiness).

    I have an ISFP friend that I've hung with awhile now and he actually seem to appreciate alittle of my confidence (as long as we have the same opinions).

    Am I fair?
    I appreciate it more as I understand it more. I think as soon as I realised what an INFJ was I appreciated it more. For some reason ENFP can really mistype INFJs and their intentions, maybe because your first four functions are completely foreign to us. And because we normally approach situations by reading intentions and have a decent amount of confidence in our perceptions, it can cause trouble when they see mixed stuff and get confused. Like we read that you have good intent and don't want to harm us or anyone else, but on one level you ring ENFP alarm bells, like it's too calm there must be a catch, or when are they going to pull out the gun, hehe. It might be our reaction to the judging function. It's quite strange.

    I wouldn't worry about being good enough. The fact we don't have a good enough measurement is more the problem. That is another thing lost in translation. We just don't stop exploring or place limits on what we question. Thing is you don't have to care, because it is for our own entertainment and enlightenment, rather than to judge you. If we aren't doing it consciously and saying it, it is happening subconsciously anyway. It doesn't really turn off. Luckily ENFPs are pretty non-judgmental and aren't competitive or achievement based. If someone says that guy is a bisexual sociopath with 5 arms who wants to take over the world, we say cool, I've never met one of them before. The more intricate and weird you are the better . The more we see of something the more we appreciate and love it for what it is.

    Just to clarify though. The times when we will get judgy it will be about control or interpersonal stuff. If we think anything is destructive to people around you on a more than superficial level or is restricting them from reaching their potential, then we judge. But we judge on that action, not on the fact you are also something else that society disapproves of. And we don't hold judgment on that action later unless we believe it is present again. The whole no two situations are the same thing.

  7. #157

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    Actually another thing we might find unnerving is INFJs seem to kill thoughts and emotions at the conscious level. You see it then it vanishes and is never expressed. I think with Fi you see what we want you to see a lot of the time. It is usually truthful and we express stuff because it is fair and constructive to be honest, but the decision happens at a level that is less detectable by the viewer.

  8. #158
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    noigm: There are 2 reasons why I am "too" calm. And It's either because I am aloof at the moment (not feeling worth nor necessity for emotional energy), or It could be that I try to disciplin my emotional reactions (outwardly). Why I would want that is because I don't want to appear to clingy (or "unstable" as I've heard thinkers say to me) in an otherwise neutral situation.

    Yes, I know that emotions come and go as very much and sometimes sudden. I don't have the ability to manipulate the viewer as you have but as I've said; I try to atleast disciplin myself somewhat and It's actually because I don't want the feelings to get critized (sry, my ego won't allow it). My Fe will never feel this perfect harmony but I like when Fi's complement me and calming me down.

  9. #159
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    It drives me nuts 'cause I can get along with an __FP since they'll understand enough of what I'm saying thanks to S/Ne.

    But if there's anything they can't keep up with using that alone, it's just a pain.
    we fukin won boys

  10. #160
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Why do you care so much?!?!?

    What's it to you?!?!?!

    These are the types of complaints that get thrown my way because of my Fi-ness.

    On the daily, I can be very much like the Dude from The Big Lebowski but the second something I deem fucked up goes down, a fiery hell within me lets loose and reeks havoc on trying to right, or fix something I view to be terribly wrong.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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