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  1. #121
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    What BlueWing describes seems more indicative of personality disorder, and he is thus attributing the effects of something else--perhaps BPD--to Fi egocentricity, which is merely a manifestation of such a disorder in such an individual as a Fi dominant.

  2. #122
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BW
    Fis tend to lack the drive for competence (lack of T) and have difficulty learning tasks that require tough-mindedness and aptitude for dispassionate problem solving.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe
    Fi's don't lack a drive for confidence, if they value what they're doing they'll try to get good at it.
    I think there is some truth to what BW says, but I think its sorta looking at things the wrong way. When an Fi dom (or secondary) does not know and understand the importance of Fi to them, it can cause them to go into career paths they are not inherently suited for, but the same could be said for many people falling into career paths that are counter to their true values.

    If an Fi cares about something and it has meaning to them, then I think it is easy for us to invest the time, energy and devotion to be the best we can be at it, but in a work environment where we don't feel energized, valued and don't feel like our talents are contributing, it can be hard to have the motivation to be more than adequate at the core tasks, but even in those cases we usually don't want to let our co-worker down so we can make up in effort/dedication what we lack in enthusiasm (this assumes of course a relationship of mutual respect with ones co-workers to begin with (and if co-workers mock or otherwise demean us, then that too can be eroded and lead to an unproductive Fi worker)

    Quote Originally Posted by BW
    Many people at work will have a problem with the fact that they cannot speak their mind freely around Fis, as they are forced to walk on eggshells (without even clearly knowing what the hell will offend the Fi, and how to predict their possible reactions and enginneer ways to get around that), especially dominant Thinkers likely will experience this frustration because they tend to highly value candor. They will need to speak their mind freely, no matter who may be offended (from their perspective) in order to solve the problems they deem important to solve.
    I think this varies with the individual but I see the overall point of being uncertain what will set off Fi hostility/resentment (the values of the Fi are not so much subject to volatility and flip flopping, but the values can vary a lot from individual to individual with Fi which makes it seem less predictable than it really is - if you learn and understand the Fis values, then you can have a good idea how they will react to various things) . I for one consider myself hard to offend by open speaking Ts, but fairly easy to offend by people who exude authoritarian or judgmental Fe. I find T criticism easier to handle since it is objective and judging the practicality and logic of my decisions, not the morality or ethics of my decisions.
    Last edited by TenebrousReflection; 07-20-2008 at 12:52 PM. Reason: forgot to spillcheck

  3. #123
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    Well, I have watched my ENFP best friend and her INTJ boyfriend do pretty much everything that BlueWing described throughout this thread. He walks on eggshells around her. She cries often over the most trivial things, and he has no way of predicting when her feelings will be hurt or when they wont be. For example, one time she cried because he wouldn't sit next to her on the bed because he was doing stuff on the computer three feet away! I have no idea why she would possibly cry over something like that. Did she tell herself right before she asked him "If he really loves me, he'll get up and sit next to me!"? Why couldn't she pull up a chair and sit next to him if she wanted it so bad?

    Another thing about people with Fi I have noticed is that they tend to have an initial distaste for personality typology. I think my ENFP best friend absolutely HATES the idea that some people out there are very similar to her, and so she believes that since it evokes negative emotions in her it can't possibly have any validity to it. She even told me once that she thinks self-help books are stupid; ironically she would benefit from reading a few of them about maintaining relationships and neuroticism, but that's just her.

    There's my two cents.


    Typology truly has no validity in the way many people present it. So I'm not going to blame ANYONE for not liking typology, or remark on how strange it is of them not to like to be *put in a box* (which is how many people COUGH! use typology), or to be described in a way that doesn't fit them, or to be described in terms of a jargon they don't understand.

    I definately would've ditched personology if I hadn't run into the right sites.

    And who knows if you're actually describing the dynaming between the supposed INTJ and supposed ENFP accurately. Thank you for your side of the story!

    Yeah, I'm really getting sick of this shit.

  4. #124
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure everyone is unhappy with the idea of being described by 4 letters.

    Yes then they readily describe themselves by listing their interests: "Umm, I like snowboarding and shopping... I LOOOVE music, and dancing!"

    Silly geese.

  5. #125
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    ""(the values of the Fi are not so much subject to volatility and flip flopping, but the values can vary a lot from individual to individual with Fi which makes it seem less predictable than it really is - if you learn and understand the Fis values, then you can have a good idea how they will react to various things)""

    good point!

    I should've mentioned too (as reflection did), Fi's don't even neccesarily have a problem with "thinkers"! There is nothing inherently more violating about the nature of thinking (although all Fi's will have great irritation with some aspect of introverted thinking).

    typical dichotimous crap.

    In truth, take any I_TPs and I_FPs, the I_FPs will probably overall be just as much or more comfortable with the whole range of Te activities: debating using if-then-therefor logic, organizing space and resources, contingency planning etc.
    Last edited by proteanmix; 07-20-2008 at 03:58 PM. Reason: merged posts

  6. #126
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    Typology truly has no validity in the way many people present it. So I'm not going to blame ANYONE for not liking typology, or remark on how strange it is of them not to like to be *put in a box* (which is how many people COUGH! use typology), or to be described in a way that doesn't fit them, or to be described in terms of a jargon they don't understand.

    I definately would've ditched personology if I hadn't run into the right sites.

    And who knows if you're actually describing the dynaming between the supposed INTJ and supposed ENFP accurately. Thank you for your side of the story!

    Yeah, I'm really getting sick of this shit.
    I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but I do agree the typology can only go so far. I think what people forget is that psychology (like any science) is about prediction and not solid, incontestable fact. Hell, even the periodic table of elements could be up for debate in a few years.

    I like typology because I like to use it as a reference point, not as something to define someone else. Plus, it helps me understand those people that really piss me off. The MBTI helps me understand me understand them a little more, and lets me known where they are coming from and why. The reason I even was drawn into the MBTI was because I thought it would be useful for characterization in my writing.

    This thread is probably the prelude to "Fe -- Why does it drive you nuts?", and I'm not sure if I'm ready for the kind of responses people will give after looking at this thread. I think it's easy to see the negative of any "function", and I personally think that having Fi has a lot of shining qualities that I think are praise-worthy. My best friend always sticks to what she feels is right. Sure, it may be annoying when we don't agree and there is no compromising to be had. However, because I know that she has such a strong belief in her feelings, I know that I can trust her in the end. I don't need to know her type to realize that, though.
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  7. #127
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    Another thing about people with Fi I have noticed is that they tend to have an initial distaste for personality typology. I think my ENFP best friend absolutely HATES the idea that some people out there are very similar to her, and so she believes that since it evokes negative emotions in her it can't possibly have any validity to it. She even told me once that she thinks self-help books are stupid; ironically she would benefit from reading a few of them about maintaining relationships and neuroticism, but that's just her.

    There's my two cents.
    That sounds really different from my ENFP friend. She devours self-help books and is one of the few people outside the forums I can talk MBTI with.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #128
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Ironically, the most Fi people I know are my ESFP friend and my INTJ dad. I (increasingly) have Fi moments of my own and can predict it in others or understand where they come from, but they are sometimes not an appropriate reflection of what the other person was trying to do and that can be frustrating. I like to think a well-balanced Fi person will accept an explanation of the motives of your action and will be able to express himself/herself as to his/her values and be open to discussion. Once people are more aware of how they function (not necessarily in MBTI context), they probably get a lot more context to help them use their Fi constructively. But this is true of every type. A teenage INTJ who gets a rush of Te isn't a pretty sight to behold either.

    I can't say I have a lot of problems with the ESFP's Fi.

  9. #129
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    IThis thread is probably the prelude to "Fe -- Why does it drive you nuts?", and I'm not sure if I'm ready for the kind of responses people will give after looking at this thread.
    Its already been done all over the board about Fe. Nothing to fear, its all already been said.

    Nothing too awful was said in this thread here about Fi though really. At least nothing an Fi couldn't anticipate would be said. It just gives a good chance to sound off back to Fe critics when in real life often one cannot.

    Originally Posted by wedekit
    Another thing about people with Fi I have noticed is that they tend to have an initial distaste for personality typology.
    I was interested in it from the first I heard about it, my husband (INFJ) had vague interest at first but now cannot understand what I get out of studying it at all. I don't know anyone else in my offline life who will take interest in it either.

  10. #130
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I was interested in it from the first I heard about it, my husband (INFJ) had vague interest at first but now cannot understand what I get out of studying it at all. I don't know anyone else in my offline life who will take interest in it either.
    Well, I gather now from your post and others that it must just be a coincidence that all the people I mentioned before have Fi. Sorry 'bout that.

    edit: Though I don't feel like looking for it, I have read in some description somewhere that ENFPs are the type most afraid/resistant to being "boxed".
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