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Thread: Questions for INFJ's

  1. #281
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labyrinthine View Post
    @EJCC I'm late to the discussion, but I can't see anything in your email that could possibly offend anyone. If I sent an email like that and someone was offended, I would give up on trying with that person altogether.
    I think I was probably projecting. I nitpick tiny details and make them personal, when I'm upset, and I didn't want her to do the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by labyrinthine View Post
    I only know a sliver of information about your questions with the supervisee, but a general issue with introverts is that they can seem uncomfortable in a variety of situations, which can be interpreted as a negative response. I feel uncomfortable a lot and can send off non-verbal signs that could be misread, but it doesn't mean anything except that I'm an introvert, so something like that could be playing a role here?
    I think a lot of the time, when people are clearly putting up a shield or facade around me, I either catastrophize ("whatever's underneath must be some sort of deeply personal bad feeling towards me") or I project onto it. I think the latter of those options must have happened here. She had on a clear uber-professional-Fe facade, and I thought "there's no way she doesn't feel shitty after what happened there, I don't believe it". I'm reminded of what @fidelia said (also quoted later in this post): "INFJs do tend to try to skirt these vulnerable feelings by trying to control their environment and other people's approach to them".

    Quote Originally Posted by theforsaken View Post
    She probably is seeking out your approval of her, to be seen as a sea of wisdom, a shelter from the storm, and focuses on other people and their emotional states rather than her own. Fe users are definitely guilty of this, as is why I always seek others' inputs about my own emotions rather than seek them from within, which feels difficult and frustrating at worst.

    I have a feeling she admires you a lot.
    I hope you're right, but there's no way for me to know. I know that she likes me. I know that she respects me. But beyond that? I mean, "admires" is a strong word.

    I suspect you're right about the approval-seeking aspects. That may be why she is Fe-guarded with me?

    Quote Originally Posted by theforsaken View Post
    In a snapshot: Listen, reassure us that we've done what we can, upholster us in areas where we shine, give us examples of how good of a worker we are, and then ask us questions on how to do better next time.
    I suspect I could do a much better job at giving her a space where she feels listened to. She seems very used to being the listener, and not the listened. And I'm such an extrovert -- and such a jokester, tbh -- that I fall into the "listened" role perhaps too easily.

    So, thank you for this insight.

    I suspect the trouble will be not coming across as too awkward when I listen, because I've known INFJs to be deterred by that awkwardness.

    Quote Originally Posted by theforsaken View Post
    I think you are a wonderful boss to ask us this. I have a feeling most companies just adopt a one-size-fit-all mantra when it comes to different temperaments.
    Thanks.

    I think you're right, and that's a big part of why I supervise/mentor the way I do. If you actually listen, and pay attention, then it's not hard at all to be a halfway decent and attentive manager. I guess the problem is that a lot of people don't care. A lot of people are managers because their job requires that they be managers -- not because they enjoy managing. In contrast, I love managing, and it's probably my favorite part of my job. So it makes me sad to hear about shitty, uncaring, one-size-fits-all managers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    You need to understand that being a Mentor is about helping, it's not about making sure they feel comfortable all the time. They won't, that is how learning works. Unfortunately it sounds like she's particularly sensitive to that sort of stuff.
    Oof. Yeah. This has been one of the hardest things about supervising, for the past year. I hate it when my supervisees are unhappy in their work -- especially when I assigned that work, and there's nothing I can do to make it easier for them.

    Below: helpful things that I have no response to other than that they were very helpful, and thank you. I bolded the especially interesting/new (to me)/noteworthy things to remember for later.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    In fact, I find that usually I can find the solution myself if given the chance to talk, a couple little tweaks in perspective or additional information and some processing time. I will say that Te directness and in charginess (though not bluntness) is reassuring. It feels like someone's got the main bases covered. I do care about knowing how my work is perceived though and where there are gaps. Also if I'm taking too long to get something done, usually understanding why it matters or who it affects is a huge motivating factor for me. I prefer doing stuff with either a committee of my choosing or being given responsibility for a chunk to do independently, rather than accomplishing something together with a lot of disparate people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    IMO, she's going to have to lift some weight. If I've learned anything about myself, and what I have noticed in INFJ's, is that they have to learn to deal with their own mind, compartmentalize it when needed, and be mature in the face of lacking emotional support. And most importantly learn to understand that it's not about them. Further, sometimes the situation at hand lends it to be impossible to feel ok and reassured about something. You've seen this come up in my blog recently. I would hope that she's doing this, but in your position it's important to keep in mind that you won't be able to bring her to a state that you want her to be at every single time. She's got to sort it out in her head.

    Now, as far as what you can do for the part about making her understand it's not all about her is to actually tell her how YOU feel. My adviser does this with me and it helps a ton, and that sort of thing helps my mother (INFJ 9w8) a crapton. It eleminats the feeling of "they hate me they are angry at me I am in trouble", which stems from Ni trying to fill a void. Granted, my adviser is ENFJ so it's easy for him, but I think you can do it too. The first step is to point out the practicality of the situation, which is easy for you. By doing this first, she'll get the uncomfortable stuff out of the way first. Doing it second makes it feel jarring. Do it in as warm of a manner as you can. Once that is out of the way, tell her how you feel. Point out that you understand, aren't mad at her (assuming you aren't), and that if you are upset, you're upset at the situation and not her. This will take some adjusting for her to accept. Ni/Fe reads between the lines with everything even when told not to, and for an INFJ I'd imagine it's even harder to do than it is for me. This is very similar to what @Wind Up Rex said is a good tactic.

    You're really not going to make her perfectly calm down. Making an INFJ calm down isn't really possible unless the situation is made to be what they think it should be in their head, and that their assumptions were correct.

    ...If what she seems to be worried about the most is how you feel, or if she feels compelled to make sure you feel ok, then you need to point out how you do feel about things. This will take practice because the delivery is going to be hard for you, and you'll need to be somewhat selective on what feelings to give. For example, if she fucks up and you're mad at her, be careful with expressing that. I think it's important, but be something like "Yes, I am mad because you did not follow through on your responsibilities after I already told you what to do. I will expect you to not make this a pattern, but I have faith you will learn and improve". Basically, if you need to deliver a bad feeling, then explain how it's bad, but that something can be done.

    Hopefully that helps!
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    This is very true. Eliminating the guesswork about YOUR feelings is tremendously helpful for Ni-Fe folks, both for not arriving at incorrect conclusions due to lack of info, and also in reducing the emotional noise so they can properly focus on the situation at hand. I teach a lot of adults and find that their emotional noise level is especially high when around new people or when learning something where they can screw up and look bad. It really messes with their ability to take in information, or accurately assess their own performance.

    INFJs do tend to try to skirt these vulnerable feelings by trying to control their environment and other people's approach to them, but like Hard said, the world is not always ideal. Protecting and moving forward with growth can't happen at the same time. Sometimes the first is temporarily needful, but it is not a good longterm strategy and INFJs need help trusting that they have other tools in their kit that could be more effective.

    Hard also makes an excellent point that it is important that you do not emphasize the BLAME part of things for the INFJ. That's like turning the volume up to 200 and leaving the room. So to be most helpful, be straight up, but help them even if everything is not okay at the moment, it will be and you can help with a path to getting there if they get stuck figuring out what to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by theforsaken View Post
    We speak Fe, so this is going to feel unnatural for you, but that's the only way we can understand it. Some examples can include the following:
    "Someone from Accounting told me what you did recently, and I felt so proud of what you did. It must've felt difficult to make that decision, but you did it anyway, and it relieved us of having to work that weekend to correct the mistakes. How does that make you feel?"

    "I have to ask: Do you feel unappreciated? Why?"

    "You're doing a fantastic job. The problem that happened earlier has nothing to do with your competence and everything to do with the fact that life is imperfect sometimes. I understand that you felt you could've done better, but you truly did what you could. Do you think that as well?

    Basically, Fe reaches out towards the other person/other people. Listen to her vent. Don't immediately hand her 'sound and sensible' advice. Nod and add some "I completely understand" here and there. Make her feel like she's not crazy for what she's feeling at that moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!
    Likes Hard liked this post

  2. #282
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Oh, I'm pleased if there was anything helpful there for you!
    Likes EJCC liked this post

  3. #283
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    VERY helpful And lots.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #284
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    At least you have a pile of INFJs to test your new knowledge out on!
    Likes Hard, EJCC, meowington liked this post

  5. #285
    Seal Down Array Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    At least you have a pile of INFJs to test your new knowledge out on!
    Aka, guinea pigs
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari
    Likes EJCC liked this post

  6. #286
    Junior Member Array Kayo Queiroz's Avatar
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    I use mostly the right side of my brain!
    Kayo Queiroz
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  7. #287
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayo Queiroz View Post
    I use mostly the right side of my brain!
    Good choice! After all, you could have chosen to use the WRONG side of your brain.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
    Likes Forever liked this post

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