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  1. #241
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    why? I would mean no harm
    I would just think it was weird and unnecessary because it's a given you're supposed to not be an asshole driver and I would think it was probably incorrect that people who drive a certain color of car tend to be. Rich people I could believe might be assholes, but if I didn't do anything out of the ordinary I would think it was unnecessary. Although I would appreciate it at the same time. If it was a guy and he was using it as a pickup line that might be ok, unless he was old and/or ugly.


  2. #242
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I would just think it was weird and unnecessary because it's a given you're supposed to not be an asshole driver and I would think it was probably incorrect that people who drive a certain color of car tend to be. Rich people I could believe might be assholes, but if I didn't do anything out of the ordinary I would think it was unnecessary. Although I would appreciate it at the same time. If it was a guy and he was using it as a pickup line that might be ok, unless he was old and/or ugly.

    it wasn't a pick up line it was going to be a sincere compliment, you are reading things into my motivation that's not their. you obviously never driven here. I had no desire to try and become with the person or get anything from them. People here don't get enough compliments, and if that makes me a bad person then whatever I'll be a fucking monster then. good day. and yes 9 out 10 people in white cars in my experience driving here are assholes same with people who drive bmws, this conclusion has been done through intense observation. don't give me this kumbya bs some people are asshole drivers especially here.
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  3. #243
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    it wasn't a pick up line it was going to be a sincere compliment, you are reading things into my motivation that's not their. you obviously never driven here. I had no desire to try and become with the person or get anything from them. People here don't get enough compliments, and if that makes me a bad person then whatever I'll be a fucking monster then. good day. and yes 9 out 10 people in white cars in my experience driving here are assholes same with people who drive bmws, this conclusion has been done through intense observation. don't give me this kumbya bs some people are asshole drivers especially here.
    Ok well you asked what our reaction would be, and that was it. I was saying if a random person was using it as a pickup line that would be less weird, nothing to do with you. And maybe where you are people are meaner drivers, that might be true; but where I live they aren't that much. I don't know what it would have to do with the color of their car. I might expect someone driving a hummer or a jacked up pickup truck or something else ridiculous to be mean, but I still wouldn't feel the need to say they are the exception to the negative rule; that seems kind of like a backhanded compliment to me. Like, 'you're pretty smart for an INFP'. Maybe you would mean it sincerely, but I would think that was really unusual and still think it was weird and creepy.

  4. #244
    inside the lines EJCC's Avatar
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    Question for you INFJs, in part inspired by @Eilonwy but by no means just her -- many other INFJs on this forum have made me wonder this.

    Many INFJs I know seem to find comfort(?) or some kind of important hard truth(???) in the fact that they cannot ever know what is inside someone else's head. Or, more broadly, in the fact that all information is uncertain and dubious, somehow. That everything depends on your perspective. Why is this so important? How does it not hinder everything you do, making it harder to actually accomplish anything? Or is it more of a counterreaction to a natural tendency towards the opposite (namely, presuming to know what others are thinking, and being very confident in those assumptions)?

    I am fully aware of the bias inherent in this question, but just know that I have a lot of INFJ friends and family and am asking this so I can better understand you all and relate to you better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
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  5. #245
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Question for you INFJs, in part inspired by @Eilonwy but by no means just her -- many other INFJs on this forum have made me wonder this.

    Many INFJs I know seem to find comfort(?) or some kind of important hard truth(???) in the fact that they cannot ever know what is inside someone else's head. Or, more broadly, in the fact that all information is uncertain and dubious, somehow. That everything depends on your perspective. Why is this so important? How does it not hinder everything you do, making it harder to actually accomplish anything? Or is it more of a counterreaction to a natural tendency towards the opposite (namely, presuming to know what others are thinking, and being very confident in those assumptions)?

    I am fully aware of the bias inherent in this question, but just know that I have a lot of INFJ friends and family and am asking this so I can better understand you all and relate to you better.
    Not sure if I am following you, but I don't think that way at all (though my official mbti test puts me at a intp), but the powers that be here believe i am definitely an infj...

    I believe with enough digging and delving I can get closer and closer to knowing everything in someone's head. I usually do not want to know everything in someone's head though because that takes so much time and energy. But I do want to know everything about what is inside my Beloved's head.

    The fact that people change and things can be relative for some people, means little about what is inside their head. Overall, people change little in their personality, though they can change a lot in their behaviors.

    Just my opinion! Thanks for asking~
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  6. #246
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Question for you INFJs, in part inspired by @Eilonwy but by no means just her -- many other INFJs on this forum have made me wonder this.

    Many INFJs I know seem to find comfort(?) or some kind of important hard truth(???) in the fact that they cannot ever know what is inside someone else's head. Or, more broadly, in the fact that all information is uncertain and dubious, somehow. That everything depends on your perspective. Why is this so important? How does it not hinder everything you do, making it harder to actually accomplish anything? Or is it more of a counterreaction to a natural tendency towards the opposite (namely, presuming to know what others are thinking, and being very confident in those assumptions)?

    I am fully aware of the bias inherent in this question, but just know that I have a lot of INFJ friends and family and am asking this so I can better understand you all and relate to you better.
    I am not sure if I am actually, INFJ. But I am at least FJ.

    I do sort of relate to this in a way.

    I think the reason why it's comforting is because it's what gives us passionate drive. I mean, I really wish I did know what was going on inside the heads of people I care about... but that's the drive. The wishing/wanting something you don't already have knowledge of.

    I could also be bullshitting you, but this my response. For now.
    You are so arbitrary.

  7. #247
    Senior Member Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Many INFJs I know seem to find comfort(?) or some kind of important hard truth(???) in the fact that they cannot ever know what is inside someone else's head. Or, more broadly, in the fact that all information is uncertain and dubious, somehow. That everything depends on your perspective. Why is this so important? How does it not hinder everything you do, making it harder to actually accomplish anything? Or is it more of a counterreaction to a natural tendency towards the opposite (namely, presuming to know what others are thinking, and being very confident in those assumptions)?

    I am fully aware of the bias inherent in this question, but just know that I have a lot of INFJ friends and family and am asking this so I can better understand you all and relate to you better.
    Can you give a specific hypothetical example of what you mean by "what is inside someone else's head" (or, whatever it is we do that you're trying to describe- as specific an example as possible)? Additionally it would be helpful to show exactly how that reluctance would make it harder to accomplish anything?

    I'm having a hard time understanding how unwillingness to make an assumption about what's going through someone else's head could make it harder to accomplish anything, or how it could possibly be detrimental. Assumptions- about others' intentions, meanings, etc- cause so much trouble and chaos (which inevitably creates more work- when it's work/effort that COULD have been easily prevented by being a little more careful, it's frustrating to deal with*) that I'm having trouble understanding how anyone could think it's ultimately more productive to go with the assumption.



    *It's possible I'm actually answering the question here, in this parenthetical phrase- that it's about proactive damage control. But I still think it would be helpful to see a specific hypothetical example, to clarify.

    eta: Something tells me that- when you say "accomplish anything"- you're referring to tasks that simply don't show up on our radar as being an inherent priority for us. Much in the way that proactive damage control aimed at the interpersonal space inbetween people isn't going to show up as an inherent priority for ExTJs. It can be very frustrating to feel an inherent priority that flies completely under others' radar- but it's also frustrating to deal with someone else having an inherent priority that doesn't make any sense to us.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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    Likes EJCC liked this post

  8. #248
    inside the lines EJCC's Avatar
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    @Z Buck McFate Where I'm coming from, with that question, wrt how that would help accomplish things, is: if you have to make interpersonal decisions, then you need to operate under certain assumptions. In general, in life, if you're going to do ANYTHING, you have to operate under certain assumptions. Those assumptions include other people's thoughts, feelings, and reactions. So, when the INFJs I referenced in my earlier post seem to find comfort in deconstructing that, it seems confusing and counterproductive from my (Te-dominant) perspective. Frankly, I don't know how it's even possible to interact with people without making assumptions about them.

    Edit: Not sure why I didn't actually reply to the details of your post, but now I'm going to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Can you give a specific hypothetical example of what you mean by "what is inside someone else's head" (or, whatever it is we do that you're trying to describe- as specific an example as possible)? Additionally it would be helpful to show exactly how that reluctance would make it harder to accomplish anything?

    I'm having a hard time understanding how unwillingness to make an assumption about what's going through someone else's head could make it harder to accomplish anything, or how it could possibly be detrimental. Assumptions- about others' intentions, meanings, etc- cause so much trouble and chaos (which inevitably creates more work- when it's work/effort that COULD have been easily prevented by being a little more careful, it's frustrating to deal with*) that I'm having trouble understanding how anyone could think it's ultimately more productive to go with the assumption.

    *It's possible I'm actually answering the question here, in this parenthetical phrase- that it's about proactive damage control. But I still think it would be helpful to see a specific hypothetical example, to clarify.
    Okay, that makes sense. And now that I think about it -- and I have no idea why this is -- INFJs seem to have a lot more trouble with expressing themselves clearly, than ExTJs do. So it would make sense that in order to avoid those common misunderstandings, INFJs would try to avoid the assumption that people understand them without them being absolutely clear. Hence the stereotype of INFJs being extremely long-winded (which isn't always true), to compensate for that.

    From an ExTJ perspective, the utility of making those assumptions is that everything happens quicker and more efficiently. You don't have to take an obscene amount of time to hash out potentially unnecessary things. What if you go on and on for half an hour about something that it turns out you were totally in agreement about all along? (Not to mention, from an Si perspective, precedent-based assumptions are generally how I do things, to the point that I can't imagine how I'd do anything without them.)

    Because of the fact that it's difficult to misunderstand me, I typically don't need to worry about that. So when I was asking this question, all I could think of was a much more chaotic, unpredictable, and extremely frustrating system than the one I currently have.

    I knew my biases were at play, but now I know exactly which ones! Yay

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    eta: Something tells me that- when you say "accomplish anything"- you're referring to tasks that simply don't show up on our radar as being an inherent priority for us. Much in the way that proactive damage control aimed at the interpersonal space inbetween people isn't going to show up as an inherent priority for ExTJs. It can be very frustrating to feel an inherent priority that flies completely under others' radar- but it's also frustrating to deal with someone else having an inherent priority that doesn't make any sense to us.
    In part, I am -- e.g. the bit about time and efficiency above -- but I'm referring to feelings-y things too. Like, if someone looks happy, you can assume that they are. If they say they're happy, with a happy facial expression, and the context for that doesn't suggest that they're trying to fake it, then you can assume they're happy. You don't have to re-hash all of that. I guess for me as an ExTJ, feelings-based assumptions are a way to minimize stress and worry, since if I stop making assumptions about how other people are feeling, then I start to get paranoid that everyone is unhappy. That's probably inferior Fi at play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
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  9. #249
    Senior Member GIjade's Avatar
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    Many of the people I deal with are definitely not INFJ's, they are most likely TP's or TJ's. And they are passive aggressive. I don't like that and won't put up with it. If you have something to say, just say it. Don't play your little games and expect me to jump in and do the same.
    “Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.”
    ― Walter Scott, Marmion

  10. #250
    Senior Member Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    From an ExTJ perspective, the utility of making those assumptions is that everything a TJ considers important/relevant, whilst other types might not give much of a rat's ass about happens quicker and more efficiently- if at the cost of steamrolling over people/making people feel like objects in your path to be used. You don't have to take an obscene amount of time to hash out potentially unnecessary (by EJCC/ Te-oriented introverted perceiving standards) things. What if you go on and on for half an hour about something that it turns out you were totally in agreement about all along? (Not to mention, from an Si perspective, precedent-based assumptions are generally how I do things, to the point that I can't imagine how I'd do anything without them.)
    Not to be a jerk, but do you see how this seems like you're expecting others to adhere to your own inherent priorities? Even when things go on and on for half an hour and it turns out there was actually total agreement- it's not wasted, that information gets saved and used for future reference. It's okay if you don't see that as important/significant information yourself, but it's problematic to come from a place of asserting it shouldn't be important to anyone else either. (This is something that's true regardless of which 'type' is doing it.)

    Because of the fact that it's difficult to misunderstand me, I typically don't need to worry about that. So when I was asking this question, all I could think of was a much more chaotic, unpredictable, and extremely frustrating system than the one I currently have.
    It isn't entirely about being misunderstood. Te isn't called the steamrolling function for nothing. That directness comes with a cost. It's okay to not really see the value in being more careful oneself, to think it just isn't worth the effort/time- so long as one accepts the consequences of it. But typically I think INFJs will have a pretty bad reaction to having someone breathe down their neck (with angry undertone) about how they shouldn't be careful either. I'm not trying to chide you here, I'm just trying to point out likely consequences/present a helpful reminder.

    I'm not being very careful right now in how I'm phrasing all this (which, as hard as it might be to believe, is a sign that I give you credit)- I might totally regret not saying this more diplomatically if you have a bad reaction. But basically: you're poking INFJs with a mighty sharp stick here, yo.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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