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Thread: Questions for INFJ's

  1. #121
    philosopher wood nymph Array greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Thank you so much for your answers, all. Will respond in more detail when I can.

    Follow-up question: Is this essentially an attempt to sacrifice your feelings for harmony and/or The Greater Good? Trying to put myself in your shoes, I probably would have shared my feelings and tried to work out a solution that didn't make me feel like a bad person. Not that this is a "better" route, as it could potentially lead to conflict, and it might make the person concerned that I would remain frustrated later -- whereas with you folks, in a perfect world, no one would ever know your feelings on the subject?



    Saves so much decision-making time. Very efficient! Plus, no hard feelings in the end.
    I do let my feelings be known, but I feel I have little concept of how to appropriately do this when there is a strong disagreement between what I want and what is popular and appropriate. If it's just a small preference I can just bring up a different idea to people or do my own thing separate from the group and it'll be fine. But if I am afraid I'll actually cause an uproar I get all resentful and just say how I feel anyway and feel like I'm being immature; either that or I wait until later and ask someone else what they think I should do (like your friend did). I dunno. I usually end up being afraid out of proportion to the situation, and people still like me even if I think I'm being immature. This is part of what I call social paranoia- part being afraid people are going to stop liking me, and part projecting group judgment onto other people. Discovering that this is out of proportion to reality has helped me be more (properly) assertive over the years and comfortable in relationships.
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    Do you feel more traditionally right- or left-brained?

    Don't say whole-brained!
    Well if I can't say both I'd have to change my answers sometimes; I took a test in high school and it came out slightly left and I took one recently and it came out slightly right. I really feel both. I think more left in some areas and more right in some areas. I guess now I'd have to say right since that's what the test said and it seems correct for right now.

  2. #122
    Senior Member Array OptoGypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    If the census assumed things about me based on my sex, then, yes, I think I might find that offensive.

    You can't get anyone to do anything, including talk to you. That's what I meant by autonomy. You can ask them to do things and hope that they comply. In your situation, if a sincere apology does not work then maybe a change in your behavior that can be observed over time?

    It is kind of offensive to assume you know specific things about people because of their gender. I'm guessing you wouldn't like to be lumped in with all men and have things assumed about your preferences based on the fact that you have a dick (despite its sincerity). That's what I mean about a collective entity.

    To assume that your joke offended her because she is female . . .
    I agree with you I know allot of men that would crucify/stone me for a joke like that. It would've been wrong to think that the only reason the joke offended her was because she is female and I didn't say "all females would get" I said "most females would get offended by it." So it was the stereotyping fallacy done assuming. I've moved on, a relationship wouldn't have worked between the two of us.

  3. #123
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Follow-up question: Is this essentially an attempt to sacrifice your feelings for harmony and/or The Greater Good? Trying to put myself in your shoes, I probably would have shared my feelings and tried to work out a solution that didn't make me feel like a bad person. Not that this is a "better" route, as it could potentially lead to conflict, and it might make the person concerned that I would remain frustrated later -- whereas with you folks, in a perfect world, no one would ever know your feelings on the subject?
    Sorry I took so long to get back to this.

    The terms "harmony" and "Greater Good" bother me. They imply a nobleness of purpose, or a selflessness that I, personally, don't always feel. It's nice to rationalize it that way, but it's not always true.

    I would rather say that I tend to adjust myself, or defer, in order that things run more smoothly in relationships (with relationships being between myself and one or more people). I suspect that how I define smoothly may differ from how other INFJs define it, due to different early experiences. I really don't mind conflict as a means to resolving a problem, but I do mind ongoing, unresolved, contentious conflict because that describes my parents' marriage, and I've seen the consequences of that firsthand. That's why I'm a big advocate for honestly talking things out and reaching some sort of resolution, if possible.

    I've had a difficult time finding a way to answer this briefly for you. It's just not a cut and dried "this is essentially why I do that" type of situation for me. The whys behind the behavior are varied. If you're looking for a more depersonalized answer, I can only offer speculation. Perhaps I'm more sensitive to certain signals that are present in interpersonal relationships. Perhaps I've learned to interpret those signals based on the very early relationships formed in my family and community when I was, essentially, a powerless child. Perhaps I then identify with being powerless unless I learn otherwise. Keep in mind that other people aren't as sensitive to the same signals, so perhaps I've also learned that trying to explain what I perceive is difficult. So, I end up creating my own interpretations and projections of behavior based on all of that--an Ni model that can be difficult to adjust once it's in place.

    So, perhaps I sacrifice my feelings because I feel powerless to do otherwise in order to keep the relationship running smoothly. Which is actually a bad Ni-model to use in personal, one-on-one relationships, because then I'm sacrificing instead of compromising and I will eventually resent that and the person I feel made me sacrifice, when in actuality, I'm the person making myself sacrifice. That's why I had to learn to take responsibility, to be accountable, for my own choices. That way I no longer feel powerless and I don't feel the need to blame other people for my own choices.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  4. #124
    HopelessSituationWarrior Array Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    There are two people I wonder this about; but the types are way different. I'm way different than my mom anyway. It can be hard to tell from the outside. INFJ's are sometimes oblivious to the outside world. ISFJ's notice all kinds of details about the world- but boring (and sometimes useful) factual stuff, whereas INFJ's will notice sensory details (which ISFJ's sometimes miss). INFJ's tend to be more cerebral, thinking about abstract ideas and patterns. ISFJ's sometimes have their own brand of magical thinking, like being into ghosts and psychic stuff. ISFJ's can be more vulgar. INFJ's have a way of seeming like they aren't quite comfortable being physically present in the world, but ISFJ's seem to be pretty solid.
    Gotcha. I was wondering if ISFJs ever seem spacey. The person I am thinking of has me beat for absent-mindedness, which is hard to do. I'm going to go with INFJ, then. She also seems more "beta" than "alpha" in the way she approaches the world. (Talking about socionics, only.)


    They both have their own special brand of paranoia. Inferior Ne vs. Ni.
    How does the paranoia differ? I am unsure how inferior Ne differs from inferior Se (which seems more likely as a source of paranoia than Ni). Sometimes ISTJs (who have inferior Ne) get irritated with people asking them questions, but that seems common enough to any introverted type.
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore.

  5. #125
    philosopher wood nymph Array greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Gotcha. I was wondering if ISFJs ever seem spacey. The person I am thinking of has me beat for absent-mindedness, which is hard to do. I'm going to go with INFJ, then. She also seems more "beta" than "alpha" in the way she approaches the world. (Talking about socionics, only.)


    How does the paranoia differ? I am unsure how inferior Ne differs from inferior Se (which seems more likely as a source of paranoia than Ni). Sometimes ISTJs (who have inferior Ne) get irritated with people asking them questions, but that seems common enough to any introverted type.
    Hm, I think my boss is ISTJ then because he gets annoyed when I ask him questions. And my mom (inf. Ne) gets annoyed when she thinks I should already know the answer.

    Ni paranoia:
    Ni + Fe can project emotions and judgments onto other people and assume the worst.
    Ni in general connects seemingly unrelated things to find patterns. If this is not grounded by Se it can get out of control and see patterns which aren't there. Ni also attaches meaning to things, so it can make some wild assumptions.
    Ne paranoia:
    Ne concerns itself with the future. Whereas Ne dominants have an optimistic view of the future and are always looking for possibilities, inferior Ne distrusts the future and focuses on negative possibilities. Generally the more possibilities there are the more insecure the ISXJ gets and will assume the worst about the future (in a slippery slope of catastrophe). Sometimes s/he will assume the worst about people's motivations. This differs from INFJ's because the things attributed to the person may be really unlikely, unrealistic, or out of character.

  6. #126
    HopelessSituationWarrior Array Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Hm, I think my boss is ISTJ then because he gets annoyed when I ask him questions. And my mom (inf. Ne) gets annoyed when she thinks I should already know the answer.
    Well, I used to hate answering questions, until I realized that it was a good way to get people to trust my judgement, and alternatively, to know if it is off. ISTJs aren't the only ones that do it.



    Ni paranoia:
    Ni + Fe can project emotions and judgments onto other people and assume the worst.
    Ni in general connects seemingly unrelated things to find patterns. If this is not grounded by Se it can get out of control and see patterns which aren't there. Ni also attaches meaning to things, so it can make some wild assumptions.


    Ne paranoia:

    Ne concerns itself with the future. Whereas Ne dominants have an optimistic view of the future and are always looking for possibilities, inferior Ne distrusts the future and focuses on negative possibilities. Generally the more possibilities there are the more insecure the ISXJ gets and will assume the worst about the future (in a slippery slope of catastrophe). Sometimes s/he will assume the worst about people's motivations. This differs from INFJ's because the things attributed to the person may be really unlikely, unrealistic, or out of character.
    So it's negative patterns vs.negative possibilties? The "patterns", as it were, being contants, existing outside of time? ("This will always be a problem."/ "I'll never get over this." )
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
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  7. #127
    philosopher wood nymph Array greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    So it's negative patterns vs.negative possibilties? The "patterns", as it were, being contants, existing outside of time? ("This will always be a problem."/ "I'll never get over this." )
    Pretty much, but more like definite in time. Collapse of the wave function kind of thing- they think they know the future, and they're often right. Si dominants just theorize about it. Both are open to creating reality (although Si dominants are more distrustful that this is possible, just because they like to stick to what they know). I dunno if all that makes sense.

    Ni train of thought: this happened and this happened, and together with this established fact and this generality, X bad thing is the case.
    Inf. Ne train of thought: If I quit my job and travel for awhile I'll have no way of making money, so I won't be able to get health care when I'm sick, and I might get into a car wreck, and my companions might flake out on me and I'll be all alone, and then I'll come home and not be able to get another job because the economy sucks, so I'll just be stuck in a job I hate for the rest of my life.

  8. #128
    HopelessSituationWarrior Array Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Ne train of thought: If I quit my job and travel for awhile I'll have no way of making money, so I won't be able to get health care when I'm sick, and I might get into a car wreck, and my companions might flake out on me and I'll be all alone, and then I'll come home and not be able to get another job because the economy sucks, so I'll just be stuck in a job I hate for the rest of my life.
    I think it can work like that as an auxiliary, too.
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore.

  9. #129
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    If someone offends you how do you deal with it? I mean before doorslamming that person. And assume that it's a friendship with considerable time investments.

  10. #130
    Senior Member Array autumnandtherain's Avatar
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    So, I'm an INFJ, but I wanted to get some thoughts from other INFJs and people who are close to INFJs on this one... Hopefully this hasn't already been asked as I haven't gone through the whole thread.

    Do you feel like you talk a lot, even if that may not be the case? (For example, I feel like I talk a lot, but most of the time it's just the inner dialogue/thoughts in my head)

    Do you tend to filter out your "inner world" when getting to know people, because you assume they wouldn't understand it?

    Do your intimates (significant others, close friends, family, etc) get frustrated if you filter out your inner world?

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