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Thread: INTP + ENFJ = ?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Statistically, if I remember correctly, INFJ females are usually the least happy in their romantic relationships and the partners of male INTPs are the least happy. I don't know what that means, except that both types must kind of suck at relationships or something.
    Rambling:

    Really (more about the INFJ being the least satisfied, I hear about the INTP thing all the time)? The only reason I wonder is because I'm usually hearing from INTPs about how happy they are in their relationship with INFJs, and how long the relationships last, versus what happens with other types. Maybe they are happy while the INFJ isn't so much, but that didn't seem like the case. I should find this out. I keep seeking out INFJs and it's been hit or miss. I've even gone as far as scraping OkCupid (dating site) to see which types I match best with on average, and the number one spot is pretty much a tie between INFJ and ENFP and after them there is a huge gap and then the rest of the types. I'm glad NFs are overrepresented in the female population on OkCupid, because this ups my odds of finding one I'm compatible with. The data did kinda throw me, I guess, because while there tends to be an instant connection between myself and ENFP women, it usually turns sour at some point (they start projecting and showing just how much attention/support they need to be happy). I guess what I'm saying is that I hope the same doesn't happen with INFJs.

    Actually, I have a sister that's INFJ, so I have some sort of lifelong experience with them that should help. She always prefered it when I was in kind of a weaker position (victimized, etc), and I'm not sure I like that, but otherwise everything was ok. This is a big deal given the fact that I asked her to register on OkCupid and answer the questions so I could run my script, and our match % and friend % ended up in the 60's (not good). So if things were this decent with someone having such a low match, then I'm hopeful for what will happen when the match % goes up into the 80's and 90's. Then again, maybe my sister has a lot of annoyances/problems with me that she's just bottles up. She does that kinda stuff. I would ask an INFJ-INTP couple to register on the site to see their match and how well it relates to their experience, but I'm too afraid it will ruin their relationship.

    I heard of another study where NFs are usually the most satisfied with other NFs, followed by NTs, and SPs are usually the happiest with NTs (even though NTs don't like the SPs as much), but that wasn't very useful because it didn't break it down on a type-to-type basis.

    Also, I wonder about that study you mention. What type were the unhappy INFJs with, and what types were the poor-performing INTPs with. The INTP-ISFJ thing happens often, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's them complaining, but I'm sure the INTP isn't exactly rico suave anyway. Also, the INTP-INFJ pairing seems like the happiest for INTPs (which is what I was looking at), not necessarily the most common. But then again, if the INFJ isn't that damn happy, then what's the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by LUBUS View Post
    Why do you suppose / how do you know those failed relationships that usually with ISFJs?
    I don't remember all the details of what I did. Maybe I was on another forum, and the most common (and most dissatisfying) relationship was between an INTP and an ISFJ, usually with the ISFJ having approached the INTP. A relationship between an INTP and an ISFJ would end, and when the INTP next partnered with an INFJ, they began to report success (especially when they were older). Next was INTP and ENFP, and that relationship was also hit or miss, with INTPs (or maybe both parties) universally agreeing that it's a great match-up for friendship, but almost always disastrous when taken to the next level. With the INTP-ENFP pairing, gender seemed to matter, as female INTPs reported more disastrous results with ENFPs than males did.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUBUS View Post
    Does it mean that INTPs tend to make INFJ ladies even unhappier?
    I don't know. It seems likely. However I would imagine the pairing (can you tell my kids read fanfic?) is statistically rare enough that there might not be a huge amount of data.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapLawyer View Post
    Rambling:

    Also, I wonder about that study you mention. What type were the unhappy INFJs with, and what types were the poor-performing INTPs with. The INTP-ISFJ thing happens often, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's them complaining, but I'm sure the INTP isn't exactly rico suave anyway. Also, the INTP-INFJ pairing seems like the happiest for INTPs (which is what I was looking at), not necessarily the most common. But then again, if the INFJ isn't that damn happy, then what's the point.
    You're an INTP as well?

    You think the INFJ would be better off paired with an INTJ?
    Jeder nimmt die Grenzen seines Horizontes für die Grenzen der Welt“ -- Arthur Schopenhauer

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I don't know. It seems likely. However I would imagine the pairing (can you tell my kids read fanfic?) is statistically rare enough that there might not be a huge amount of data.
    I wonder if most INFJs see the INTPs as some kind of awkward Objectivist types?...
    Jeder nimmt die Grenzen seines Horizontes für die Grenzen der Welt“ -- Arthur Schopenhauer

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUBUS View Post
    You're an INTP as well?

    You think the INFJ would be better off paired with an INTJ?
    Yea, I'm an INTP. I don't know which pair would generally work better, but there is something about the INTP-INFJ pairing that always catches my attention.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapLawyer View Post
    Rambling:

    Really (more about the INFJ being the least satisfied, I hear about the INTP thing all the time)? The only reason I wonder is because I'm usually hearing from INTPs about how happy they are in their relationship with INFJs, and how long the relationships last, versus what happens with other types. Maybe they are happy while the INFJ isn't so much, but that didn't seem like the case. I should find this out. I keep seeking out INFJs and it's been hit or miss. I've even gone as far as scraping OkCupid (dating site) to see which types I match best with on average, and the number one spot is pretty much a tie between INFJ and ENFP and after them there is a huge gap and then the rest of the types. I'm glad NFs are overrepresented in the female population on OkCupid, because this ups my odds of finding one I'm compatible with. The data did kinda throw me, I guess, because while there tends to be an instant connection between myself and ENFP women, it usually turns sour at some point (they start projecting and showing just how much attention/support they need to be happy). I guess what I'm saying is that I hope the same doesn't happen with INFJs.

    Actually, I have a sister that's INFJ, so I have some sort of lifelong experience with them that should help. She always prefered it when I was in kind of a weaker position (victimized, etc), and I'm not sure I like that, but otherwise everything was ok. This is a big deal given the fact that I asked her to register on OkCupid and answer the questions so I could run my script, and our match % and friend % ended up in the 60's (not good). So if things were this decent with someone having such a low match, then I'm hopeful for what will happen when the match % goes up into the 80's and 90's. Then again, maybe my sister has a lot of annoyances/problems with me that she's just bottles up. She does that kinda stuff. I would ask an INFJ-INTP couple to register on the site to see their match and how well it relates to their experience, but I'm too afraid it will ruin their relationship.

    I heard of another study where NFs are usually the most satisfied with other NFs, followed by NTs, and SPs are usually the happiest with NTs (even though NTs don't like the SPs as much), but that wasn't very useful because it didn't break it down on a type-to-type basis.

    Also, I wonder about that study you mention. What type were the unhappy INFJs with, and what types were the poor-performing INTPs with. The INTP-ISFJ thing happens often, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's them complaining, but I'm sure the INTP isn't exactly rico suave anyway. Also, the INTP-INFJ pairing seems like the happiest for INTPs (which is what I was looking at), not necessarily the most common. But then again, if the INFJ isn't that damn happy, then what's the point.



    I don't remember all the details of what I did. Maybe I was on another forum, and the most common (and most dissatisfying) relationship was between an INTP and an ISFJ, usually with the ISFJ having approached the INTP. Next was INTP and ENFP, and that relationship was also hit or miss, with INTPs (or maybe both parties) universally agreeing that it's a great matchup for friendship, but almost always disastrous when taken to the next level.
    There is usually all kinds of hinky, subconscious stuff going on with sibs, so who knows?

    I'll see if my husband is up to looking at the okaycupid thing this weekend if I can remember. We've been married twenty-one years and have a lot of the bugs worked out, so I think that won't cause us to get divorced.

    For me, things were hard when the kids were little. But we had four kids in five and a half years and we were also poor (literally in poverty) and in our twenties, so that is an extreme circumstance.

    Communication can be a big thing. We both try to avoid conflict, so that left stuff festering (at least on my side) for awhile. Eventually I figured out he wasn't being obtuse, he just really didn't know what I was unhappy about. Once I figured out how to be calm but very blunt, things got better.

    It also took us awhile to learn how to make decisions well together. He internally goes ape-shit if he feels like someone is trying to control him. I go ape-shit if there is not some kind of plan in place. I don't have to make the plan, we don't have to stick to the plan perfectly, I just need to know there is a plan and I like to know what it is. Hate surprises. He has a very controlling mother, so he took my need for a plan to be me trying to control him and would slam on the breaks and/or sabotage whatever plans I tried to make. Once I learned about MBTI, I got a better handle on what was going on and was able to navigate things better and we do pretty well now. Last time I really tripped it was when I bought a house and expected him to help me make it habitable. But we got through that.

    Some things took some getting used to. He does not get jealous. He will not argue with me. He does not want to be involved with the handling of the money. He mostly doesn't care what I do as long as it does not inconvenience him. He doesn't care if the house is trashed as long as there is a path to the important stuff (bed, bathroom, fridge, computer). He likes good food, but could live happily on frozen pizza. He will sit in the dark for months before bothering to change a light bulb. He does not have any interest in outdoorsy stuff.

    He's gone camping with me once and that was because I was going with a church group and he was worried the church people would hurt my feelings. He never went when I took the kids by myself because he didn't perceive that as being threatening to me. He went fishing with me once and I never took him again because I had to bait his hook and the kids' hooks and barely got to fish myself.

    IOW, anyone expecting a lot of stereotypical man stuff (in our part of the US) might not have their expectations met. Not a huge deal for me, but it might be for someone with more conventional expectations.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUBUS View Post
    I wonder if most INFJs see the INTPs as some kind of awkward Objectivist types?...
    More like adorkable.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    More like adorkable.
    Adorkable??...Is there an over-the-counter test for that?
    Jeder nimmt die Grenzen seines Horizontes für die Grenzen der Welt“ -- Arthur Schopenhauer

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    It also took us awhile to learn how to make decisions well together. He internally goes ape-shit if he feels like someone is trying to control him. I go ape-shit if there is not some kind of plan in place. I don't have to make the plan, we don't have to stick to the plan perfectly, I just need to know there is a plan and I like to know what it is. Hate surprises. He has a very controlling mother, so he took my need for a plan to be me trying to control him and would slam on the breaks and/or sabotage whatever plans I tried to make. Once I learned about MBTI, I got a better handle on what was going on and was able to navigate things better and we do pretty well now. Last time I really tripped it was when I bought a house and expected him to help me make it habitable. But we got through that.

    Some things took some getting used to. He does not get jealous. He will not argue with me. He does not want to be involved with the handling of the money. He mostly doesn't care what I do as long as it does not inconvenience him. He doesn't care if the house is trashed as long as there is a path to the important stuff (bed, bathroom, fridge, computer). He likes good food, but could live happily on frozen pizza. He will sit in the dark for months before bothering to change a light bulb. He does not have any interest in outdoorsy stuff.

    He's gone camping with me once and that was because I was going with a church group and he was worried the church people would hurt my feelings. He never went when I took the kids by myself because he didn't perceive that as being threatening to me. He went fishing with me once and I never took him again because I had to bait his hook and the kids' hooks and barely got to fish myself.

    IOW, anyone expecting a lot of stereotypical man stuff (in our part of the US) might not have their expectations met. Not a huge deal for me, but it might be for someone with more conventional expectations.
    Your husband sounds a lot like me ... and I live in the midst of a very conventional community...
    Jeder nimmt die Grenzen seines Horizontes für die Grenzen der Welt“ -- Arthur Schopenhauer

  10. #30
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    Slightly tangential but interesting - my dad is INTP and mom ESFJ and their partnership is not unlike cafe and her husband's in many ways. She too is the day-to-day planner, practical money handler (not stocks), and primary child-caretaker. She too is the dominant communicator, and is the one to keep up with dad's family, though he's sociable with his own music buddies. He does practical repair and maintenance and she does the scheduling, appointment-booking, and so on. My dad has fairly strong S(i) and they are both sp-first so I think that adds to their connection.

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