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  1. #81
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Eh, I don't know if my knowledge means anything but from what I can tell (from Jung's stuff), Fe dom-ness is not exactly about being outgoing or whatever. It's about introjection (meaning that you have a tendency to over identify with something out there. So you won't be "outgoing" if you somehow arbitrarily determined that it's incorrect to be outgoing with others that you don't know to well.

    He said the Fe and Te doms are about holding onto a some kind of law and never wanting to deter from that.
    You are so arbitrary.

  2. #82
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    Can I ask a question? Can you explain a bit about what it means to be Fe dom?
    i'm not sure if bologna is just taking a bit to get to your question, and i'm not the best person to answer, but just to give you something to go off of. the Fe doms are ESFJs and ENFJs and because they lead with the Fe function, they are supposedly all about feeling-based judgments (i.e. social protocol, etc.)
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  3. #83
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    i'm not sure if bologna is just taking a bit to get to your question, and i'm not the best person to answer, but just to give you something to go off of. the Fe doms are ESFJs and ENFJs and because they lead with the Fe function, they are supposedly all about feeling-based judgments (i.e. social protocol, etc.)
    yeah, they can definitely be about social protocol (that seems obvious to everyone here). Jung was the one who said that there is difference between being in love and being loving. You are making a conscious decision to be loving and upholding that ideal if you're Fe dominant. But if you're a perceiving dom you're more likely to just ....well, fall in love... I guess (that part I am unsure of).
    You are so arbitrary.

  4. #84
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    yeah, they can definitely be about social protocol (that seems obvious to everyone here). Jung was the one who said that there is difference between being in love and being loving. You are making a conscious decision to be loving and upholding that ideal if you're Fe dominant. But if you're a perceiving dom you're more likely to just ....well, fall in love... I guess (that part I am unsure of).
    I think there's a valuable concept tucked away in that idea but I don't think it would be right to say FPs are more likely to fall in love. I do think that judgers and perceivers approach love in different ways, though.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
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    Hive: arent you
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  5. #85
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Every time FPs fall in love it's always "special" and "I've never felt anything like this" and "no one has ever been like this for me".

    And that might happen every 6 months.
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  6. #86
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    I think there's a valuable concept tucked away in that idea but I don't think it would be right to say FPs are more likely to fall in love. I do think that judgers and perceivers approach love in different ways, though.
    nnnoo it's more a metaphor. FPs won't be more likely to "fall in love" but Ne or Se doms would. Perceiving doms seem to be "think" in a more happenstance manner.
    You are so arbitrary.

  7. #87
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Let it be said that I enjoy both types a lot, am known to ENFJs unlike their introverted counterparts, and to be BFFs with ENFPs. That said, I too saw major bias against ENFPs in the OP. I see a conflation of the "free spirit" non-linear method of the ENFP with a lack of integrity ^ lack of concern for others, which is decidedly NOT Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post

    ENFJ
    1- More able to clearly identify and pursue a life-long project. (Overly rigid when defining personal goals.)
    2- Orchestrates / minds what is said, so as to not damage other people's pride / vanity / self-esteem / feelings. (Says whatever they think other people want to hear.)
    3- When looking out for solutions, prefers one that is most convenient and simple to all involved. (Tries to please the group at all costs.)
    4- Very likely to observe social regulations and traditions without too much thought on overhauling or questioning them. (Doesn’t think for themselves. Never questions traditions even when they need to be changed.)
    5- Less prone to acting without consultation or thinking about long-term consequences, especially when it concerns people. (Can’t do anything without the approval of the group.)
    6- More interested and more energized by being in a long-term, harmonious relationship (romantic and non-romantic alike). (Focuses on long-term relationships at the expense of forming new relationships.)
    #1 - Gets stuck on a single path, goes into paralysis if cannot make it happen or it turns out to not be so good. May try to coerce and manipulate people along the way under a veil of the "greater good", when it's really their personal vision (see "Ni" and "Hitler").
    For #2 also: shames others into adjusting ways to what they feel is best, since they experience their own feelings as objective.
    For #3 also: can make "one size fits most" decisions, leaving out fringe people, or attempts to shame them into the "one size" mold. Perhaps convinces self the decision is for the best of everyone instead of in their own interests (inferior Ti cold manipulations?).
    #4: See "shaming" again. Also, their values will shift with contexts. Social regulations and traditions are not timeless, rather they shift pretty dramatically over just a few generations or less. They will reflect that rather than any timeless sense of "values". Plus, it's all about function, not meaning.... pretty shallow stuff.
    #5: Takes too long to gather consensus & creates too many imaginary reasons not to go forward. Consensus doesn't result in being the best decision... ends up trying to please everyone. Loses vision in the process. Possibly didn't have integrity to begin with. If decision fails, will find a person who was part of the consensus to throw under the bus.
    #6: Extremely picky about who they enter a "real relationship" with, but flirts like mad with "friends", shameless collecting admirers they string along until they find their holy grail of romance. Leads INFPs on.

    Quote Originally Posted by LUBUS View Post
    ENFP

    1- More difficulty in defining their lifetime goals, let alone pursuing them...in truth, prefers the thought of the being free to do so without constraints.

    2- Tends to communicate with «no filter», meaning that, although sensitive, they may unwittingly hurt people when enthusiastically pursuing attractive ideas / lines of thought.

    3-Prefers to look for unique solutions, no matter how erratically, and much prefers to leave their implementing to others.

    4-Much less willing to compromise / be obliged by social regulations and conventions if their visions and feelings are at stake.

    5-Prone to acting without consultation and with little regard to long-term consequences...likely to be caught with pants down again and again...usually apologizes profusely afterwards, but may struggle to keep resolution.

    6-Prefers to explore in relationships, often prefers the spark of the new ones to the steadfastness of old ones...easily bored.
    1 - Doesn't have "lifetime goals" so much, but refined feeling-values, aka, concepts about what is fundamentally significant to the human experience. Explores potential as it emerges and sees what embodies these concepts & how to nurture them in others. In the process, discovers all kinds of stuff that the blinders of "goals" would cause one to miss.
    2 - No filter is often true, but this can also mean greater sincerity, cutting through BS, and truly considering other views instead of trying to push others into a consensus
    3 - Prefers to unearth hidden potential others would miss, and as this is their talent, knows how to delegate the other tasks :P. Seriously though, they have an eye for potential in others & are good at bringing the right people on board to help with bringing a vision to fruition.
    4 - Not just their vision and feelings...but those of other outliers. Aware of underdogs and the under-appreciated, those left out and persecuted by such conventions, etc. Looks out for others' feelings & visions also.
    5 - Owns their ideas & results... doesn't dole out blame if results fail. Recovers quickly from loss, quickly seeing next possibility. Doesn't consult so much as explore other perspectives, and after doing so, may still see their own as the way to go (likely due to Fi rational reasoning, not shown on the surface). Not getting caught up in consensus means being able to take a stand when the majority is violating some basic human rights/needs.
    6 - Fickleness is a problem with N-dom... I think ENFPs have less concrete standards for partners & they don't want to overlook a possibility, so there's more of an exploring process until they find the right fit. In contrast to the ENFJ, ENFP intentions are clearer, as the person is more aware of their actual emotions & honest about what a connection MEANS, regardless of the label its been given (this is opposed to hiding behind predefined "roles" to evaluate relationships and not actual dynamics as they are occurring; something ENFJs do: "We're just friends, even though we make out & take vacations along together; why can't my husband accept that?").
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    hehehe, are you saying you might not be enfj, bologna?
    "Might" is too weak a word

    As @LadyX mentioned, I'm viewed (and view myself) as kinda balanced in a few areas. I relate to ENFJ, INFJ, ENFP, and ENTP the most (for those who are keeping track at home, that's Ne, Ni, Ti, and Fe), and have typed myself as all of those in the past. I wouldn't call myself a spokesman for Fe-domness, for sure.

    ENFJ happens to be the best fit overall, it's what the official CPP pegged me as, and it's what correlates to what I know is definitely how I measure on the Big Five traits.

    Also --
    i might be one, i should say. lots of people think it fits for me, and i *can* be very outgoing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    mmhmm, i think you just hit the nail on the head. i'm only outgoing in small, familiar groups of people.
    Same here. All of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    Can I ask a question? Can you explain a bit about what it means to be Fe dom?
    I'd never call myself a spokesman for Fe-domness, but primarily (a) because descriptions are unreliable tend to be way off, and (b) I do very much relate to other cognitive functions.

    That said, your own assessment nailed it squarely on the head. It applies in general, from a theoretical standpoint, and seems to apply to me, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    Eh, I don't know if my knowledge means anything but from what I can tell (from Jung's stuff), Fe dom-ness is not exactly about being outgoing or whatever. It's about introjection (meaning that you have a tendency to over identify with something out there. So you won't be "outgoing" if you somehow [s]arbitrarily determined that it's incorrect to be outgoing with others that you don't know to well.
    Guilty as charged.

    The bolded above is key. Which also means...
    He said the Fe and Te doms are about holding onto a some kind of law and never wanting to deter from that.
    I relate more to that bolded than to this. I tend to be cognizant on what 'the rules' are, perhaps more than some. But I ultimately choose whether or not to partake, and 'not partaking' isn't a difficult option for me to choose.

    I have no idea why Criminal Minds of all things comes to mind, but:

    Erin Strauss: And you cannot arrest a man based on the possibility of a scratch.
    David Rossi: We can't arrest this man. That's what you mean. Don't pull any punches now, Erin.
    Erin Strauss: You don't understand what the politics are, do you, Dave? You never have.
    David Rossi: No, I do. I just don't care.

  9. #89
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    "Might" is too weak a word

    As @LadyX mentioned, I'm viewed (and view myself) as kinda balanced in a few areas. I relate to ENFJ, INFJ, ENFP, and ENTP the most (for those who are keeping track at home, that's Ne, Ni, Ti, and Fe), and have typed myself as all of those in the past. I wouldn't call myself a spokesman for Fe-domness, for sure.

    ENFJ happens to be the best fit overall, it's what the official CPP pegged me as, and it's what correlates to what I know is definitely how I measure on the Big Five traits.

    Also --


    Same here. All of it.

    I'd never call myself a spokesman for Fe-domness, but primarily (a) because descriptions are unreliable tend to be way off, and (b) I do very much relate to other cognitive functions.

    But I think your own thoughts nailed it squarely on the head:

    Guilty as charged.

    The bolded above is key. Which also means...

    I relate more to that bolded than to this. I tend to be cognizant on what 'the rules' are, perhaps more than some. But I ultimately choose whether or not to partake, and 'not partaking' isn't a difficult option for me to choose.

    I have no idea why Criminal Minds of all things comes to mind, but:

    Erin Strauss: And you cannot arrest a man based on the possibility of a scratch.
    David Rossi: We can't arrest this man. That's what you mean. Don't pull any punches now, Erin.
    Erin Strauss: You don't understand what the politics are, do you, Dave? You never have.
    David Rossi: No, I do. I just don't care.
    doesn't surprise me that you relate to what i said, a lot, bologna, because i've doubted your enfjness before!

    so wait, let's go through this one by one. tell me what the case is for F as opposed to T for you.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  10. #90
    Member LUBUS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Let it be said that I enjoy both types a lot, am known to ENFJs unlike their introverted counterparts, and to be BFFs with ENFPs. That said, I too saw major bias against ENFPs in the OP. I see a conflation of the "free spirit" non-linear method of the ENFP with a lack of integrity ^ lack of concern for others, which is decidedly NOT Fi.

    You're right, it's far from being Fi ... but quite like Ne on top of Fi.
    Jeder nimmt die Grenzen seines Horizontes für die Grenzen der Welt“ -- Arthur Schopenhauer

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