User Tag List

First 5678917 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 253

  1. #61
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Well yeah maybe
    Or maybe not, and she's just dodgy. Hers was a thoroughgoing assertion.

  2. #62
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Then this is an example where I should have gone to read the thread. I made the false assumption that it was basically a rant, which are commonplace on the internet. The question as it is posed: "Are NF's boring?" does not imply anything like what you just described. The title words should be chosen with more care to communicate their true meaning. Something like: "Do NF's hide what is most interesting about them?" Or something better articulated than that. The question as it is put is reasonably interpreted as a rant w/o much thought put into it because it uses a sweeping generalization expressed in derogatory wording. Seriously, you don't see that?

    I was matching derogatory wording with derogatory wording. Also when I say something like... [i]...Does that make sense?
    Haha yeah, but I didn't start the thread - Mac did, from something I said on the other board, but he put it in his OP in a way that wasn't really how I said it in my original thing over there. When I said my original post, I did actually state my example as a woman I know who's interesting and intelligent but won't share it, and presented it as observation/anecdotal/tentative while he spun it here to look like I made a sweeping generalisation or conclusion. That's why I put my disclaimer soon after the OP of this thread.

    (this is also an example of an NF having to explain why it isn't emotional in the way someone has assumed.)
    And here's an NT explaining that Mac is a shit stirring word twister :P

  3. #63
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    And as far crossing i's and dotting t's is concerned, that may be true in the real world, but on certain internet forums NTs can make idiotic, lazy assertions and expect those statements to be treated like gold simply because of their type.
    Good observation. The same backwards logic that convinces an NT that everything he says must be precise and logical can also convince an NT that everything an NF says is fuzzy-headed. I've read MBTIc and INTPc long enough to know that ain't necessarily so.

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    The title words should be chosen with more care to communicate their true meaning. Something like: "Do NF's hide what is most interesting about them?" Or something better articulated than that. The question as it is put is reasonably interpreted as a rant w/o much thought put into it because it uses a sweeping generalization expressed in derogatory wording. Seriously, you don't see that?
    If the OP hadn't been written by an admin, one might even call it a troll.

  4. #64
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    And here's an NT explaining that Mac is a shit stirring word twister :P
    I actually wondered if it was a way to see how much NFs avoid conflict, since that has peeked in as a definition for 'boring' in this thread. That's part of the reason for my 'what the hell' approach. The whole NF's are boring, SJ's are dumb, E's are shallow, etc. etc. does drive me crazy, and I stand by the fact that such things are idiotic.

    btw Mac, you're a stinker! It's time for some purple nurples and you know it. ...
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  5. #65
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.Woolf View Post
    Good observation. The same backwards logic that convinces an NT that everything he says must be precise and logical can also convince an NT that everything an NF says is fuzzy-headed. I've read MBTIc and INTPc long enough to know that ain't necessarily so.
    I didn't mean to suggest that NT's always take great care to make sure their words are consistent and logical and flawless, but more that they take great care to make sure they say exactly what they mean - though granted, what they mean can be wrong and flawed in itself, but what they mean is what they say, and vice versa, so it doesn't really help when someone starts adding other meanings to what they say that weren't implied in the clearly expressed and carefully selected words. I've no problem with being told that my idea is wrong, or flawed, or whatever - what I have the problem with is being told that I mean things that I don't mean, or intend things that I don't intend, when I went out of my way to say clearly exactly what I meant and intended.

    Do you see the distinction?

  6. #66
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Do you see the distinction?
    Yes. However, when a post is not understood as it was intended to be, it's not always cut-and-dried as to who's at fault. I have written posts that were misinterpreted, and in retrospect I had to admit they could be read in more than one way. That is, I was not precise enough. Sometimes my post did not directly address the post I was replying to, and we end up talking past each other.

    I do not imply that you make the same mistakes.

  7. #67
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I've no problem with being told that my idea is wrong, or flawed, or whatever - what I have the problem with is being told that I mean things that I don't mean, or intend things that I don't intend, when I went out of my way to say clearly exactly what I meant and intended.
    Yes, definitely -- I do not know anything MORE frustrating (although if you give me time, I'll think of something) than being very precise in my wording in order to preemptively avoid such pitfalls and still having people read into what I said or misinterpret it... and especially if I clarify what I meant after their mistake, and they STILL persist in telling me that I meant something else...!

    Usually this problem crops up much more when talking to non-NT people. That is not meant as a criticism; I think it simply means that words crossing the "type" divide are sometimes bent into a different shape by the process. It is cold reality that words and context can shift in meaning depending on one's foundational mental framework.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #68
    Senior Member nottaprettygal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    1,641

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I've no problem with being told that my idea is wrong, or flawed, or whatever - what I have the problem with is being told that I mean things that I don't mean, or intend things that I don't intend, when I went out of my way to say clearly exactly what I meant and intended.

    Do you see the distinction?
    I know this wasn't directed at me, but I understand the distinction that you're trying to make. However, like I said, how is someone supposed to know that your surface intent is your actual intent? I think that you and I have two different views on this. You think that one should probably assume that someone is being straight-forward, whereas I think that one should assume that something is hidden beneath the surface of a statement.

    I can't always be sure, but that's when I rely on my intuition and knowledge to make an assumption. The wording in the OP was suspect, that's all I'm saying.

  9. #69
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    I think that you and I have two different views on this. You think that one should probably assume that someone is being straight-forward, whereas I think that one should assume that something is hidden beneath the surface of a statement.
    I know I am over-generalizing a little bit here, but this is the big difference between Ne and Ni:

    Ne assumes that patterns exist and can be derived from the data (i.e., it implicitly trusts the observation)

    Ni knows that data can mean different things and different patterns can be created from, all based on the intention of the one delivering the information (i.e., it implicitly distrusts the observation).

    Of course, then you get into Se and Si, which both usually see the surface elements of the presentation and accept those at face value (or routinely do not accept them... but it's really based on the preferences of the receiver, rather than any real cue implanted within the information itself).

    I know that I have been surprised (but am getting used to it) at how S people in general get hung up on the presentation and/or surface details, and how I need to be both explicit in what I mean as well as what my intentions are.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #70
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I know I am over-generalizing a little bit here, but this is the big difference between Ne and Ni:

    Ne assumes that patterns exist and can be derived from the data (i.e., it implicitly trusts the observation)
    It's not so much that I trust implicitly that people/things aren't misleading - it's more that I trust my own ability to pick up the external signs that they're misleading. To me, if something's deceptive, it's obvious from external clues, without having to go attributing spurious speculations that come purely from my own assumptions. To me, that just corrupts the flow of information with a sorta red herring, contaminates it and makes everything go awry.

    And because I go out of my way to make sure I don't contaminate the external picture with red herrings, it annoys me when people assume that I do, and the way NPG puts it to me sorta suggests a quite paranoid, untrustful state of mind, quite insulting in a way, always assuming everyone's trying to con you or something?

    Like I say, it's not that I assume everyone's honest all the time, but I take what they say at face value and take them as I find them, trusting in my own perception to be able to tell when they're hiding something and what it is that they're hiding, without having to assume everyone is all the time.

Similar Threads

  1. Are you bored?
    By Chickennugget in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-12-2015, 12:35 AM
  2. [NF] NFs are you spiritual?
    By syndatha in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 94
    Last Post: 03-14-2011, 12:02 AM
  3. [NF] NF's be honest, are you a sissy?
    By Angry Ayrab in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 114
    Last Post: 01-29-2009, 11:35 AM
  4. [NF] NFs -- Are you BORED?
    By CzeCze in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 01-29-2009, 10:32 AM
  5. [MBTItm] NFs, are you too serious?
    By ThatsWhatHeSaid in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 01-14-2009, 12:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO