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  1. #61
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Well, I am very sensitive to facial expressions, but I am not sure someone would type me as an INFP based on my photo.

    Interesting about the Fi versus Fe observances. For me... I want my facial expression and body language to genuinely reflect what I am feeling. When I am forced to stifle these emotions it feels.... wrong. Whereas I notice my ENFJ friend is the queen of making comments like "and there I was having the worst day of my life but it was no excuse to not smile and look jolly." I am semi-envious of that but at the same time... I want to rebel against it.

    I do know that the older I get, the more I have been able to adapt to curtaining my emotional state from others. I no longer wear my ever changing moods on my sleeve, my face, and dare I say it, my shoes.

    Dunno if I am actually answering or replying to the essence of what you have here. /Ne
    well i could be having a bad day...or be stressed or upset about something and still be happy to see someone or enjoy their company...so the smile on my face isn't masking my internal feelings...it's just that i'm not focusing on myself at the moment. rather that's ne dom or 7 who the hell knows... but it's a separate matter...know what i mean?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Someone on a different forum insisted I was an INFJ because of a video. I mean, I actually had a good 10-exchange argument over it before quitting the discussion. Then, after I quit, the guy had the gall to back-pedal and get all apologetic. (He was an INFJ btw.) If you're going to persist that long, then you should believe strongly enough not to abruptly back-pedal out of social nicety; otherwise you should have quit at round #1.

    Photo reads are even worse, they are just single frames of a vid feed.
    LOL! How splendid. Reminds me of the many, tiresome arguments I have had thrown at me on here because they assume I am not what I say I am given the stereotypical patterns handed down over the centuries from the prophets typologists.

    Photo reads are even worse, they are just single frames of a vid feed.
    Yes. Because clearly that one instant where one is snapped is that grain of sand on the infinite oceanic beach of the universe that is yourself and of course every grain of sand is a clone of another so only one is required to showcase the totality of being.

    Right there's another issue that is not being taken into account: Change and learned behavior modification. Static / Single moments of data cannot capture anything regarding the aspect of change, it only captures what someone looks like in one single moment. So, again, lack of context means that one image can correlate with a number of different things.

    If you get better at using your facial expressions for things besides emotion or get used to covering up your emotions on your face, people who practice this will confuse your external expression for your internal motivations.
    Adaption is how the species survives or doesn't survive.

    And if you take into account the personal bias that everyone starts with given their own limitations... it's a crapshoot that we can ever fully identify others. Especially since most people can't even identify themselves with any accuracy. The idealized state is so often substituted for the current actualized state.

    Also, I think of the functions as motivations of thought, not necessarily their end products. You and I are currently agreeing on a topic but we are coming at it from our own angles of judgement. Doesn't mean we are both XXXX type.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    well i could be having a bad day...or be stressed or upset about something and still be happy to see someone or enjoy their company...so the smile on my face isn't masking my internal feelings...it's just that i'm not focusing on myself at the moment. rather that's ne dom or 7 who the hell knows... but it's a separate matter...know what i mean?
    yes, I do.

    It's something I have gradually learned to incorporate into my internal structure to override my natural inclination to explode into a million sparkling particles of emo just because I feel crappy in that moment.

    Which is a mindset that makes working with other people much more rewarding.

  4. #64
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Also, I think of the functions as motivations of thought, not necessarily their end products. You and I are currently agreeing on a topic but we are coming at it from our own angles of judgement. Doesn't mean we are both XXXX type.
    No, it is likely you are XXXX and I am just XXX. *ba ba ba boom*
    And then there are genotypes.

    But yes -- the endpoint is the "captured in time" moment, whereas the motivations of thought are actually more descriptive of the person and the endpoint more coincidental.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #65
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I think there is something to it. The very concept of extroverted feeling means something along the lines of sharing Feeling with the collective experience of a group, while introverted feeling means Feeling is more focused on the experience of the self. So the following has some basis, just from the theory; if you reject any sort of generalization based on it, you reject the theory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think the most that can really be said is that, in general, maybe in theory Fe is more liable to use facial expressions as signifiers of commitment/social standing, while Fi is more liable to use expressions as signifiers of underlying emotional state...
    That said, I agree that while psychological (and hence typological) state can motivate and result in outward expression, you can't go the other way around and discern psychology/typology just from outward expression. It only works if someone has a distinct and persistent tendency for one or the other, and even then it must be taken into account with all the other factors.

  6. #66
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Interesting about the Fi versus Fe observances. For me... I want my facial expression and body language to genuinely reflect what I am feeling. When I am forced to stifle these emotions it feels.... wrong.
    I think it's the opposite for me. I'm supposed to be Inferior Fe, which is going to complicate things, but there are occasions where what I feel is so intense, sharing it with others creates problems. It's all or nothing.... there are no degrees. If I'm not sure that someone is ready for that, I don't see any good coming from me sharing it (for either myself, or anyone else). In my experience, it tends to either create problems, or intensify ones that already exist.

    Whereas I notice my ENFJ friend is the queen of making comments like "and there I was having the worst day of my life but it was no excuse to not smile and look jolly."
    I've found that if I'm unhappy, and I express that, I express that very strongly. This makes other people unhappy, because emotions are often contagious. But people don't like being unhappy. If there's nothing they can do about whatever is making me unhappy (which is often the case), why should I burden them? What's bothering me has nothing to do with them, so why should I put that on them? It also has a way of creating a loop of unhappiness, too, and prolonging the unpleasant feelings.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    I think the most that can really be said is that, in general, maybe in theory Fe is more liable to use facial expressions as signifiers of commitment/social standing, while Fi is more liable to use expressions as signifiers of underlying emotional state... but that is just theory and assumes the extreme "idealized" function manifestation... a cliche instead of a human being.
    Ah.... so this would be where the "Fe" is fake thing comes from. Fitting in with this, if I have emotions that people consider to be less positive, I prefer to hide them from people unless the emotions directly concern the people in question.


    The reality is that no one is 100% one or the other, and so our facial expressions are not used in a uniform way on a practical, in-the-moment basis. If you're trying to use them to decode, it's like a cypher where the same letter can mean different overlapping things and an expression can stand for different letters.... from individual to individual. There is no uniform code.

    Any human being is capable of expressing an authentic feeling on their face regardless of MBTI type; it's what human beings do. And all human beings are capable of smiling at others (or passing along some other facial cue) as part of a socialization strategy, regardless of MBTI type. It's all part of the human lexicon of human emotion and human community.

    Trying to use a single photo / captured moment in time to decipher type from facial expression is about as useful as just flipping a coin.
    Oh.... I'm in agreement here. I was interpreting this thread as being more about "tendencies" than hard and fast rules that can be applied in all situations. That's how I try to view this stuff... as a collection of "tendencies". I do think certain people are more likely to tend to think or do certain things than other people. I see MBTI or Jungian theory as an attempt to classify that. There's also the fact that it provides context for my oddness.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  7. #67
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Oh.... I'm in agreement here. I was interpreting this thread as being more about "tendencies" than hard and fast rules that can be applied in all situations. That's how I try to view this stuff... as a collection of "tendencies". I do think certain people are more likely to tend to think or do certain things than other people. I see MBTI or Jungian theory as an attempt to classify that. There's also the fact that it provides context for my oddness.
    Yes, the problem with tendencies is that you cannot use them to concretely identify people with. They are just broad tendencies applying to a constructed category.

    And the title of this thread is "telling Fi from Fe based on eyes and smiles". Excuse me for maybe taking that to heart, but that title specifically angles this thread to make specific judgments about individuals based on tendencies within a theoretically constructed category... a tendency that can't even be quantified because the visuals being referred to can apply to people across the entire spectrum based on internal motivations.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I think it's the opposite for me. I'm supposed to be Inferior Fe, which is going to complicate things, but there are occasions where what I feel is so intense, sharing it with others creates problems. It's all or nothing.... there are no degrees. If I'm not sure that someone is ready for that, I don't see any good coming from me sharing it (for either myself, or anyone else). In my experience, it tends to either create problems, or intensify ones that already exist.
    Interesting. I know for myself, I can handle intensity of emotion because I just want whatever is real. What I have a much harder time handling is when something is off and I see it and I must investigate and try to tear the blanket off of everything to reveal the quivering truth beneath.

    Even if the truth explodes in my face like a rusty musket.

    I've found that if I'm unhappy, and I express that, I express that very strongly. This makes other people unhappy, because emotions are often contagious. But people don't like being unhappy. If there's nothing they can do about whatever is making me unhappy (which is often the case), why should I burden them? What's bothering me has nothing to do with them, so why should I put that on them? It also has a way of creating a loop of unhappiness, too, and prolonging the unpleasant feelings.
    @bold, I have noticed this with my INTP dad and some of my INTP friends. It's a bit surprising in some ways because they will be sitting there.. usually fidgeting and all of a sudden *BOOOOOOOOOOOOM*

    But it's refreshing to have happen because then I feel like we are dealing with "what iz real" and work can actually be done to fix the problem(s).

    In regards to the last... I think that it's an important part of a true friendship where it's give and take on both sides. Disclosure is information and information is a form of power. The playing field should be made equal between the two to the extent that it can be to each other's comfort levels. It shouldn't be about power but truth and the healing that truth allows.

  9. #69
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I can't speak for myself, but my ENFP friend is the worst smiler in photos ever. Seriously, she looks like someone who is dead inside attempting to look happy. In life she always has this buoyant smile on her face that is just bursting with warmth, but in her photos she has those dead eyes. The fake smile pictures don't even look like her; she literally looks like a totally different person. She just can't fake it. It bothers me so much that when I take pictures of her I try to tell jokes and catch her in a candid smile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I completely agree. I find those tests where you are supposed to type people by their photos as beyond ridiculous.
    I would have said that before, but then I saw some of the videos detailing analysing type facial traits/behaviour and found them quite compelling.

    I think the extent that they are useful is very limited (eg. I wouldn't purely type someone using it, but it might be valuable additional information), but it is interesting all the same.
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  10. #70
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I think there is something to it. The very concept of extroverted feeling means something along the lines of sharing Feeling with the collective experience of a group, while introverted feeling means Feeling is more focused on the experience of the self. So the following has some basis, just from the theory; if you reject any sort of generalization based on it, you reject the theory.
    Actually no, that's not their very concept at all. They are both rational reasoning which assign value, not emotional experiences to be shared or not. Of course, there is a connection to emotion, but this is a gross oversimplification & that's why the generalizations are crap also.

    It may be true that Fi resists affectation more from external sources which are using emotion to push a value that doesn't hit on their inner ideals, but it doesn't mean that when actually affected they do not express emotion strongly.

    You may see Fi-dom express emotion LESS OFTEN in an overt way, but that does not mean they cannot become extremely animated & passionate when something touches on an inner ideal, including an intimate conversation or experience with someone that strikes them as significant, and this noted in many IxFP profiles.

    Arguably, any eventual Fi expression could be more unbridled - as it would be about genuine affectation and not about appropriateness. I find many Fe types may sometimes have fake & forced expressions because they are using them as social communication tools & not as genuine expressions of their actual inner state. This aligns with Dario Nardi's observations that Fe-dom, especially ENFJs, tend to not be experiencing the affects of an emotion they are communicating with words. It gives the impression that they are expressing an emotion they don't actually feel. This is because they are using emotion to communicate weight, or value, and to affect others with it so they properly appreciate their statements.

    Taking a photo would have little to do with either type being genuinely expressive of emotion, IMO. Both may be forcing an expression that does not represent an internal emotion in the moment. After al, the Fe type adopting a proper expression is more of rational response, not an emotional one.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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