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  1. #51
    A_priori
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    i hate fake smiles. the majority of my work revolves around making people stop that shit haha
    Haha, your cool no doubt'

  2. #52
    A_priori
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I used to be terrible at smiling in photographs.

    Then, I discovered a trick.

    The trick is to think of something that makes you really happy. You can decide what that is for yourself.
    Haha, pictures are kind of dumb unless they're things that don't inflate your ego.

  3. #53
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I'm Fe.

    I always feel like my smiles in photos look fake. They are fake, but that doesn't bother me- I want them to look good. I smile a lot, especially in response to others, but it's little smiles; I have trouble smiling big unless it's genuine, and I'm laughing or really happy because of some guy. I'm not very expressive, but I'm not serious either. I laugh a lot, but it's usually little giggles. I don't know what my eyes look like. No one has particularly commented on them. People say they like my laugh though; last night my guy friend said my laugh seems really genuine, like I can't control myself.

    My INFP cousin does the big, genuine eye smiling thing.
    Could this account for why Fe is seen as "fake"? I know that I dislike when people are pulling apart my facial expressions to determine how I feel about something, or how I feel at that moment. "you have a troubled expression on your face"... I don't know, I was pretty content until you started bothering me! Then I have the responsibility to show that my "troubled expression" is not about anything they did.

    once they know i like them that assumption is more or less set in stone so i can be my usual self, which is to say not bursting with emotional energy but rather giving my subtle hints of affection, and that doesn't affect their energy towards me to the same degree as a Fi primary or secondary person.
    I can't speak to that, since I've never dated anyone with Fe. My experience with people who have Fi, though, is that my facial expressions are being "monitored" to determine whether or not I have the correct emotions in any given situation. It's a little annoying.

    Hell, it's not even the case with only dating situations or even only FP females. The males do it too.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  4. #54
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I think these discussions are ridiculous, frankly.

    1. There is too much individuation to really label these things as function-oriented.
    2. People can't even agree on what function should be attached to a particular picture. Lots of confirmation bias here.
    3. Functions are not emotions.

    I think the most that can really be said is that, in general, maybe in theory Fe is more liable to use facial expressions as signifiers of commitment/social standing, while Fi is more liable to use expressions as signifiers of underlying emotional state... but that is just theory and assumes the extreme "idealized" function manifestation... a cliche instead of a human being.

    The reality is that no one is 100% one or the other, and so our facial expressions are not used in a uniform way on a practical, in-the-moment basis. If you're trying to use them to decode, it's like a cypher where the same letter can mean different overlapping things and an expression can stand for different letters.... from individual to individual. There is no uniform code.

    Any human being is capable of expressing an authentic feeling on their face regardless of MBTI type; it's what human beings do. And all human beings are capable of smiling at others (or passing along some other facial cue) as part of a socialization strategy, regardless of MBTI type. It's all part of the human lexicon of human emotion and human community.

    Trying to use a single photo / captured moment in time to decipher type from facial expression is about as useful as just flipping a coin.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #55
    Anew Leaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think these discussions are ridiculous, frankly.

    1. There is too much individuation to really label these things as function-oriented.
    2. People can't even agree on what function should be attached to a particular picture. Lots of confirmation bias here.
    3. Functions are not emotions.

    I think the most that can really be said is that, in general, maybe in theory Fe is more liable to use facial expressions as signifiers of commitment/social standing, while Fi is more liable to use expressions as signifiers of underlying emotional state... but that is just theory and assumes the extreme "idealized" function manifestation... a cliche instead of a human being.

    The reality is that no one is 100% one or the other, and so our facial expressions are not used in a uniform way on a practical, in-the-moment basis. If you're trying to use them to decode, it's like a cypher where the same letter can mean different overlapping things and an expression can stand for different letters.... from individual to individual. There is no uniform code.

    Any human being is capable of expressing an authentic feeling on their face regardless of MBTI type; it's what human beings do. And all human beings are capable of smiling at others (or passing along some other facial cue) as part of a socialization strategy, regardless of MBTI type. It's all part of the human lexicon of human emotion and human community.

    Trying to use a single photo / captured moment in time to decipher type from facial expression is about as useful as just flipping a coin.
    I completely agree. I find those tests where you are supposed to type people by their photos as beyond ridiculous.

  6. #56
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I completely agree. I find those tests where you are supposed to type people by their photos as beyond ridiculous.
    VI is ridiculous.

    Although... and I'm not entirely convinced that this is function related myself, but I find some people to be very sensitive to facial expressions, and find them to be a good source of "reliable" data about someone's feelings towards something. All the individuals that I can think of have typed as FPs. They're more likely to read my my lack of a smile as displeasure, for instance, or immediately act to "do something" about a particular expression that momentarily showed on my face.

    Rightly or wrongly, I associate Fe with a mentality that states "there is no right or wrong feeling, it's your response to the situation that matters." (which is more sensible to me) Fi seems to believe in a certain "pure" response.

    I can't figure out how Fe is different than Fi, really, other than the fact that one makes "sense" to me, and the other one just seems inscrutable. The above is just what I've been able to figure out through my own observations.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  7. #57
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    VI is ridiculous.

    Although... and I'm not entirely convinced that this is function related myself, but I find some people to be very sensitive to facial expressions, and find them to be a good source of "reliable" data about someone's feelings towards something. All the individuals that I can think of have typed as FPs. They're more likely to read my my lack of a smile as displeasure, for instance, or immediately act to "do something" about a particular expression that momentarily showed on my face.

    Rightly or wrongly, I associate Fe with a mentality that states "there is no right or wrong feeling, it's your response to the situation that matters." (which is more sensible to me) Fi seems to believe in a certain "pure" response.

    I can't figure out how Fe is different than Fi, really, other than the fact that one makes "sense" to me, and the other one just seems inscrutable. The above is just what I've been able to figure out through my own observations.
    I have not observed Fe or Fi being better than the other in correctly reading what a particular facial expression means. People essentially read your face to align with their own personal biases. Facial data needs to be triangulated with other types of data to accomplish anything useful.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #58
    Anew Leaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    VI is ridiculous.

    Again, I don't know if this is function related, but I find some people to be very sensitive to facial expressions, and find them to be a good source of "reliable" data about someone's feelings towards something. All the individuals that I can think of have typed as FPs. They're more likely to read my my lack of a smile as displeasure, for instance, or immediately act to "do something" about a particular expression that momentarily showed on my face.

    Rightly or wrongly, I associate Fe with a mentality that states "there is no right or wrong feeling, it's your response to the situation that matters." (which is more sensible to me) Fi seems to believe in a certain "pure" response.

    I can't figure out how Fe is different than Fi, really, other than the fact that one makes "sense" to me, and the other one just seems inscrutable. The above is just what I've been able to figure out through my own observations.
    Well, I am very sensitive to facial expressions, but I am not sure someone would type me as an INFP based on my photo.

    Interesting about the Fi versus Fe observances. For me... I want my facial expression and body language to genuinely reflect what I am feeling. When I am forced to stifle these emotions it feels.... wrong. Whereas I notice my ENFJ friend is the queen of making comments like "and there I was having the worst day of my life but it was no excuse to not smile and look jolly." I am semi-envious of that but at the same time... I want to rebel against it.

    I do know that the older I get, the more I have been able to adapt to curtaining my emotional state from others. I no longer wear my ever changing moods on my sleeve, my face, and dare I say it, my shoes.

    Dunno if I am actually answering or replying to the essence of what you have here. /Ne

  9. #59
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Well, I am very sensitive to facial expressions, but I am not sure someone would type me as an INFP based on my photo.
    Someone on a different forum insisted I was an INFJ because of a video. I mean, I actually had a good 10-exchange argument over it before quitting the discussion. Then, after I quit, the guy had the gall to back-pedal and get all apologetic. (He was an INFJ btw.) If you're going to persist that long, then you should believe strongly enough not to abruptly back-pedal out of social nicety; otherwise you should have quit at round #1.

    Photo reads are even worse, they are just single frames of a vid feed.

    Interesting about the Fi versus Fe observances. For me... I want my facial expression and body language to genuinely reflect what I am feeling. When I am forced to stifle these emotions it feels.... wrong. Whereas I notice my ENFJ friend is the queen of making comments like "and there I was having the worst day of my life but it was no excuse to not smile and look jolly." I am semi-envious of that but at the same time... I want to rebel against it.

    I do know that the older I get, the more I have been able to adapt to curtaining my emotional state from others. I no longer wear my ever changing moods on my sleeve, my face, and dare I say it, my shoes.
    Right there's another issue that is not being taken into account: Change and learned behavior modification. Static / Single moments of data cannot capture anything regarding the aspect of change, it only captures what someone looks like in one single moment. So, again, lack of context means that one image can correlate with a number of different things.

    If you get better at using your facial expressions for things besides emotion or get used to covering up your emotions on your face, people who practice this will confuse your external expression for your internal motivations.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #60
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    @msg_v2 i mean...there's truth to parts of that but not for the reasons you think. it's not as if there's a rule book you're not following. it's just about reading comprehension. just being interested in the underlining truth...not the polite smiles but the true feeling not always shared. there's no right or wrong. we're not (i'm not) judging you positively or negatively. we're just trying to understand the truth of what's going on.

    because that's the part we're interested in responding to.

    i certainly don't try to fix people unless they want to be fixed. i might acknowledge it to show concern so they know i'm available to talk or hang out but...i'll leave them be if that's what they want.

    it's not always as shitty as it seems. you might try to give those fps the benefit of doubt occasionally.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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