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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I note the distinction, where Fe tends to feel more formal. Note that Fe dominant types are J's by definition, hence it might not feel as free. Usually I feel that some form of specific articulation has to be attached to the connection.

    Those who are Fi dominant are P's, so the smiles might seem warmer or more playful. The connection is thus less articulated, more exuded. And they're engaging with their N/S sense, so it's "felt" more than "imposed/articulated."

    But I think as people get older and/or more mature, the Fe/Fi thing starts to muddy up a bit. I actually feel like I do Fe more, I can feel warmth but the smile was often a chosen sign. I laugh at my INTP son because we'd just stare at each other sometimes, and then I'd smile at him to show him I cared, and then he'd suddenly smile too as if mirroring me, and then I'd stop and he'd stop... and then we both laughed because we both knew what we were doing.

    But that latter laugh? That feels playful and free, more like Fi... something that just resonated inside, not an external symbol, and I responded to it and so did he.

    Everyone has all the functions. I think if we learn to recognize the feelings inside and also learn not to try to control the outward expression so much, our warmth can come out spontaneously regardless of type or even considering what "society might think appropriate" or a conscious symbol of our goodwill. In the last few months, I have felt myself warmly engage strangers, spontaneously, without fear, and FEEL it... and felt them respond. It's exhilarating and scary to not be calculating those social connections, and instead to exude them and be vulnerable to whatever comes back.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I note the distinction, where Fe tends to feel more formal. Note that Fe dominant types are J's by definition, hence it might not feel as free. Usually I feel that some form of specific articulation has to be attached to the connection.

    Those who are Fi dominant are P's, so the smiles might seem warmer or more playful. The connection is thus less articulated, more exuded. And they're engaging with their N/S sense, so it's "felt" more than "imposed/articulated."

    But I think as people get older and/or more mature, the Fe/Fi thing starts to muddy up a bit. I actually feel like I do Fe more, I can feel warmth but the smile was often a chosen sign. I laugh at my INTP son because we'd just stare at each other sometimes, and then I'd smile at him to show him I cared, and then he'd suddenly smile too as if mirroring me, and then I'd stop and he'd stop... and then we both laughed because we both knew what we were doing.

    But that latter laugh? That feels playful and free, more like Fi... something that just resonated inside, not an external symbol, and I responded to it and so did he.

    Everyone has all the functions. I think if we learn to recognize the feelings inside and also learn not to try to control the outward expression so much, our warmth can come out spontaneously regardless of type or even considering what "society might think appropriate" or a conscious symbol of our goodwill. In the last few months, I have felt myself warmly engage strangers, spontaneously, without fear, and FEEL it... and felt them respond. It's exhilarating and scary to not be calculating those social connections, and instead to exude them and be vulnerable to whatever comes back.
    yeah, this is pretty much what i was thinking just w/ better and clearer wording... /jealous

    and on a side note, it must be cool having an intp kid as an intp parent. if there's one thing i have to possibly look forward to in that department is having a kid like me so i can share all my knowledge w/ them and give them a sort of head start on learning to be an intp compared to having to learn everything on one's own, the hard way. i'm sure any type of kid i could do that w/ but i dunno, i think w/ one like me it would mean a little more to them... and me.

  3. #13
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    For what it is worth, no I don't think one can tell Fi from Fe based on smile and eyes, or I can't anyway.
    There's a muscle that's engaged when your smile is genuine - your eyes crinkle at the corners. A forced smile doesn't engage the eyes. There was even a thread about this somewhere...

    In any case, I refuse to believe all Fi's do it one way and all Fe's do it the other.
    Proud Female Rider in Maverick's Bike Club.

  4. #14
    Senior Member sciski's Avatar
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    Yes, I think you're simply talking about the difference between a polite (or 'false') smile and a genuine smile.

    Not all Fe smiles are false, not all Fi smiles are genuine. Maybe the ENFJ you met is giving you the polite smile because they simply don't know you yet, but wishes to express their friendliness in what they consider is a pretty normal manner to do so. I mean - they're smiling, they're showing goodwill... if you accept that rather than stamping it with Fe or Fi, then maybe you and the ENFJ will relax enough around each other so that you won't even notice the type of smile given anymore..

    The degree of false vs genuine smiliness really depends on mood and comfort, regardless of type. It seems far more likely a P/J thing than Fe/Fi - I smile genuinely, I'm a J, but I test as P in behaviour - being relaxed in nature (ie generally comfortable) tends to make your emotional expression more relaxed as well. But in stressful situations, my smile will become as tense as a camping trip in peak season (ok, bad pun). So it's not entirely P or J either - just contextual.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sciski View Post
    The degree of false vs genuine smiliness really depends on mood and comfort, regardless of type. It seems far more likely a P/J thing than Fe/Fi - I smile genuinely, I'm a J, but I test as P in behaviour - being relaxed in nature (ie generally comfortable) tends to make your emotional expression more relaxed as well. But in stressful situations, my smile will become as tense as a camping trip in peak season (ok, bad pun). So it's not entirely P or J either - just contextual.
    I'm confused by this paragraph. You're a J but you test as a P?

    You do realize that P/J isn't an actual trait, in itself, right?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #16
    Senior Member sciski's Avatar
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    Yes- I get INFP in dichotomy tests, but use Ni/Fe... hence I'm actually INFJ.

    My post was slightly misleading - I realise there's no actual J/P, but there are behavioural traits associated with each, hence it's easy to use them as blanket descriptive terms.
    Last edited by sciski; 07-10-2008 at 07:33 PM. Reason: Spellcheck let me down. :'(

  7. #17
    Senior Member helen's Avatar
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    I have two friends that do that "smile with the eyes thing" perfectly. It is beautiful, breathtaking, and memorable. Like I can picture it vividly when they aren't around, which is by no means true of the average smile when you think of it. And yes, they both have Fi.

    I was trying to think if anyone else I know smiles like this on a consistent basis, and I came up with two others, and they also have Fi.

    I'd hazard a guess that everyone smiles like this on occasion, but that it's more characteristic of some people and a rarer thing for others. I wouldn't have thought of linking this to Fi vs Fe, but it's an interesting thought and I wouldn't be surprised if it had some bearing.

    Fun to think about and observe, but I'd guess there are easier and more reliable ways to go about trying to detect Fe or Fi, if that is what your object is.
    "There ain't no doubt in no one's mind that love's the finest thing around. Whisper something soft and kind." --James Taylor

  8. #18
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I use Fe/Fi as the starting point for demystifying anyone I meet.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  9. #19
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I use Fe/Fi as the starting point for demystifying anyone I meet.
    I don't know what that means, but I want you to do it to me.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  10. #20
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I don't know what that means, but I want you to do it to me.
    It requires a NERF bat and some Silly String. *wiggles eyebrows*
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

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