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Thread: ENFJ problem

  1. #11
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    maybe in kookoo ville where people don't think for themselves.
    (it was clear that I was being facetious, right?)
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  2. #12
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    maybe in kookoo ville where people don't think for themselves.
    Portland, Oregon?
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    (it was clear that I was being facetious, right?)
    I don't even know anymore

  4. #14
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    ^Lol.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  5. #15
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    I noticed, that Fe do this really often. I have this ESFJ friend and if I don't like music she does I am weird, if I don't like clothes she does I have a terrible taste,
    To prevent this from becoming another thread where everyone complains about Fe-doms for judging them, I'll step in for the sake of my ESFJ bestie. I'll defend that girl to the end of the earth.

    She used to do this with me, I think it's up to how much time you spend around them. She used to think a lot of my beliefs, tastes, etc were weird but, being the ENFP I am, I was totally cool with that weirdness. I just responded with "well that's just me." Over time she got used to my straying off the beaten path and started to join in as well (one time we went around a Target wearing like 5 bras at once and panties on our heads). If you're just upfront about yourself and become close enough with them they'll totally accept you for who you are and appreciate your "weirdness." I think too often the initial "judginess" of ESFJs (and ENFJs) push them away from people who could actually be good friends with them an cause them to gravitate towards like-minded individuals. That isn't good because ESFJs can really benefit from being around different kinds of people - helps develop their Ne open-mindedness and makes them even more fun to be around when socializing.

    they'll eventually start if someone trys to argue with her and explain another point of view, there is no way she would ever accept anything else than her opinion no matter how hard you try to reason with her...she would just think you're weird.. Why EFJs?
    In your friend's case, help her build some Ne. It can take a while for them to come around but if you're close enough to them they'll genuinely hear you out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Hmm don't Fe doms have a tendency to accept the social conscience and social values as the unquestionable and self-evident truth of things?
    I think of it more as trying to guarantee the most amount of happiness for the most amount of people. If a social value is more detrimental than beneficial to the people around them they're more likely to fight back.

    @ OP, speaking as someone who has an ENFJ mother, it can be really infuriating when an ENFJ pushes you into doing something they want you to do. I just try to remind myself that she's genuinely trying to look out for my best interest even if it means meddling in my social life. Sometimes though you just gotta do your own thing, regardless of what they say, if you think it's best for you to show them that what they previously thought was in your best interest may not have been. Learning through experience is definitely something they benefit from (Ni/Se). It also annoys me when they act like they think they "know me" and get it wrong, but I think if you clearly explain to them why they're wrong it will contribute to their understanding of you and they might be able to get it right next time. You just have to be more patient and understand that they're genuinely trying to provide something they think you'll like to your life and then correct them if you don't like it.
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    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    All it takes is this look....

    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  7. #17
    Glycerine
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    @DJ Arendee: I talk to another ENFJ on a regular basis and we just rib on each other (with a genuine smile) when one of us gets like that. Or I disengage and glaze over when he tries to impress me with big words or leads me down somewhere. Both strategies work well. Although those "judgments" are annoying, much of the time they are fluid. Sometimes my level of enthusiasm for my interests can come off as judgment and domineering when I am not trying to be (I can be judgmental but sometimes it's just intense enthusiasm).

  8. #18
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    I have/had a particularly judgmental ENFJ best friend. We've grown apart, but we're still somewhat close. She's brilliant, and I'm very fond of her, but she can be very judgmental. I used to often bend to her preferences - and some of her taste did influence me positively.

    On the other hand, I grew into myself, so I am more snug in my own taste and less apologetic about it. I think she and I as friends have come to a more comfortable place now where we can respect each others' tastes even though we don't always agree. Sometimes she's even vocalized being impressed by my sense of style and/or selections because they're not anything she would choose but they end up striking her as aesthetically pleasing anyway.

    I honestly think that part of her "judgment" was unconsciously seeking affirmation of her taste and wanting someone to enjoy her taste with her. She really seems to appreciate when I correctly identify something that she would like, so that's a fun little challenge - it's a nice way of acknowledging her taste without having to make it my own.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    @DJ Arendee: I talk to another ENFJ on a regular basis and we just rib on each other (with a genuine smile) when one of us gets like that. Or I disengage and glaze over when he tries to impress me with big words or leads me down somewhere. Both strategies work well. Although those "judgments" are annoying, much of the time they are fluid. Sometimes my level of enthusiasm for my interests can come off as judgment and domineering when I am not trying to be (I can be judgmental but sometimes it's just intense enthusiasm).
    Its very annoying. I've learned to ignore ENFJ's when they rat on my clothes or w/e. Sometimes it seems like insecurity on their end, as if they are the god of cool. I do what I want anyway, and they sorta backpedal and then start to appeal to my tastes in a cautious way so as not to make it so obvious that they changed their mind.

    Random story: I once had, what I believed to be, an ENFJ in a mcdonalds, making fun of me to his friends as I walked into mcdonalds with my laptop. They went silent as I sat directly behind him. As I worked on my computer I heard them make fun of me some more, until I turned around with some business cards and gave everyone a free ninjutsu trial class to the gym except for him. He was speechless and they just started laughing.

  10. #20
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    You're busy taming your Fe

    Don't worry, you'll get the hang of it *pats head*
    LOL! Being able to tell everyone and anyone exactly what is on your mind at the drop of a hat is not always a blessing! Haaah! That's a great observation!


    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Edit:

    Ok, I'll add something to it. It seems you're in the throws of working out which social protocols you relate to and which ones you disagree with and the nuanced situations put you on the fence as you haven't figured it out that far yet...
    Yes, agreed. Either end of the spectrum (good or bad) is simple to deal with, in comparison to the situations you don't really know how you feel about, let alone how you can handle them. And by handling them I don't mean extinguishing them in a manner that is of least difficulty/impact to you, but by recognizing what you've done in a particular instance, and understanding how you are accountable for the greater good of that which is beyond you.

    Life is about two things:

    (1) Choices
    (2) Accountability

    This is not a dress rehearsal; this is the big show - so do your best and enjoy the experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    ...But, being ESTP, I suspect you'll figure it out as you find yourself more and more in those situations and get frustrated.
    Someone appears to have witnessed one or more ESTPs figure out a few of life's bigger lessons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    At some point, you'll have experienced enough of them while paying attention to them up close to navigate those and know what you stand for without even blinking an eye
    THIS. More poignantly worded than I could ever manage. When you find yourself slaying dragons without breaking a sweat in the midst of living your life and accomplishing that which you have set out to do - you're on to something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Also, you probably should apologise and explain what was going on to your friends. Trust me, they'll love you more for it.
    This is perhaps one of the greatest lessons of sincerity that anyone can ever learn.

    IMHO, no one has learned a damn thing until they have completely screwed something up that strained their relations with others dear to them and then had to bathe in the reality that they were wrong, and needed to admit as such to those who experienced the brunt end of that situation.

    Apologizing is not always easy.

    In fact, as someone who learned to apologize fairly late in life - I know exactly how gut wrenching it can be. Sometimes you have to apologize for things that you could rationally [/i](and effectively, might I add)[/i] argue against in front of God and country; but failure to do so would result in more harm and disarray than any chink in your armor could ever cost your pride and/or ego.

    But in the same breath I will tell you this, when someone who has wronged you extends the same grace it is a powerful experience. And if they mean it, and they put forth the effort to make right what wrong(s) they have caused, then they earn a degree of credibility that is hard to deny. Anyone can be determined and zealous. Far fewer have the grace to clean up the mess caused when they overstep their bounds - whether intentionally or by complete accident.

    Discretion is the better part of valor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Also, let's see if our more experienced, ever amazing resident ESTP energiser bunny can help you out. Oh, [color=blue]@Halla74
    ...who's the biggest protector of mankind of them all?? [/QUOTE]

    Upon your call, I will do all possible to be of benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I really feel like you've touched on something here that the... entire population of the world may also be able to relate to...
    THIS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Hah. Even other ENFJs. I sometimes feel like strangling other ENFJs. But more generally, I get the sense that 99% of the world will disapprove of some aspects of one's being.
    I dated an ENFJ for 4 years, and yes, she was emotionally intense - but I loved that about her.

    A few years back I had the honor of supervising two ENFJs at work, one a brilliant programmer 10 years my senior, and the other a very determined and effective analyst 10 years younger than me. They were BOTH hard as hell to supervise. More days than not they butted heads with me, and God help everyone within earshot (about a 485 mile radius) who survived those conversations.

    BUT - to their credit - they both got shit done. They always brought what I needed by the time I needed it, and they were able to get such things from people that I did not (want to) deal with because I simply had way too much going on to labor as such, yet part of that was my default nature not being able to jive with such said stubborn, head-game wielding folk - but my ENFJs - they could extract what was needed from the obstructionists with relative ease.

    If you disagree with an ENFJ, telling them why you disagree, and just as importantly - telling them that you understand why they feel it is the right thing to do, will chip off a huge part of the boat anchors they have when they dig their heels into the ground waiting for the sky to fall until what they think should happen does. But they are not without reason, they need to be given a valid business case - and it needs to be delivered to them in terms that they identify with. Once you manage to establish that connection - they will be your greatest advocate. Until that moment, however, you will be paying your dues - whether you are their boss or not.

    Ask me some other time what it's like to manage an ESTP...

    It's basically equivalent to a fucking nightmare waiting for a crisis to destroy the terrors that somehow squirmed their way into the mix of otherwise productive endeavors - but we do it well, and it's never dull watching all you ever asked for happen in ways that you never thought were necessary - or possible, but you seriously didn't have time to and we couldn't resist convincing you to pay us to "help" you help us - LMAO!!

    What I'm trying to convey in all sincerity, is that all of us have gifts and errors. Where one is heinously effective the other will barely get by. If one of us is good at most things, the few things we are not good at will be those that cause us the most grief. The beauty of this paradox is that to grow and achieve past our own native realms of excellence, we must rely on - and hence give control over some things to others and hope for the best. If you give someone control over something that can ruin you then that is your error. The reality is though that most people will consistently live up to the lowest expectations you have of them, which is why holding people to high standards, and walking in those same shoes is the exceedingly difficult, but equally rewarding path to a rewarding life in the ways that you value most.

    Love others, love yourself, and love all the errors that are exchanged in the course of living in peace and prosperity together.



    -Halla74
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