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Thread: Ask an INFP

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    INFPs, how do you react around ENFJs? Do you argue but then also understand each other at the same time. Maybe even dare to say, put up with each other's nonsense (depending from who's view you are looking at).
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Believe it or not, even with all these Fi-Fe wars online, most of the time I naturally jive with Fe doms. There's something to be said for being dominant Feelers, particularly with ENFJs - there's some sort of immediate click. With ENFJs I feel like we both care about the free-flowing, informed, positive, evaluation-driven conversation. Conversation wise, it's like we're both people who like to leave the door wide open for others and I appreciate that. While overseas I ended up friends with a ENFJ couple and we got on like a house on fire. They had passionate, intelligent, curious minds, and I could talk for hours with them about the things about the world that interest me and that most people never want to discuss. I don't think I've ever had an argument with an ENFJ.

    OTOH there is this weird disconnect that happens with ENFJs. It's a subtle thing, but I personally find it quite noticeable. The conversation is going brilliantly and you're the centre of their attention, and then suddenly something shifts and they seem to switch off. Within a few moments, enthusiastic responses stop and they stop vibing off me as much. They're still listening but now they're looking elsewhere - as if mentally moving on to the next interaction before it's happened. Sometimes they literally move on the the next interaction: abruptly and with blithe unawareness of the sort of disconcerting social paradox it is. I suddenly feel like an imposition and that perhaps the connection we had minutes before wasn't real; that it was just them being friendly and me reading too much into it. Then I start replay the last few minutes and wondering if something I said instigated it. I tell myself it probably wasn't personal and they were just looking to switch things up and talk to someone different, but regardless I can't reconcile how quickly it happens. It seems like they must have been politely feigning their degree of interest and then it got to the point where they couldn't any more. And round and round my head it goes.

    That's the only problem I've had with ENFJs: I don't know where I stand with them. I have trouble interpreting what their thoughts are when there's these mixed messages. And it's hard for me to really properly invest in someone when I never feel secure in my connection with them. Consequently, I end up actively holding back parts of myself.

    The same thing happens with ESFJs only it's usually only when I get too conceptual and I can see they're losing interest.
    This is incredibly accurate to my impression of interacting with ENFJs, too. I thought that switch-off thing was just me! I have an ENFJ friend who will do that very obviously on the phone... all of a sudden her tone will go sort of flatter and she just won't light up like she did... it's bizarre. I agree about ESFJs, but they are more obvious about it, like you said. Easier to see what happened. ENFJs, I never know.

  2. #42
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Believe it or not, even with all these Fi-Fe wars online, most of the time I naturally jive with Fe doms. There's something to be said for being dominant Feelers, particularly with ENFJs - there's some sort of immediate click. With ENFJs I feel like we both care about the free-flowing, informed, positive, evaluation-driven conversation. Conversation wise, it's like we're both people who like to leave the door wide open for others and I appreciate that. While overseas I ended up friends with a ENFJ couple and we got on like a house on fire. They had passionate, intelligent, curious minds, and I could talk for hours with them about the things about the world that interest me and that most people never want to discuss. I don't think I've ever had an argument with an ENFJ.

    OTOH there is this weird disconnect that happens with ENFJs. It's a subtle thing, but I personally find it quite noticeable. The conversation is going brilliantly and you're the centre of their attention, and then suddenly something shifts and they seem to switch off. Within a few moments, enthusiastic responses stop and they stop vibing off me as much. They're still listening but now they're looking elsewhere - as if mentally moving on to the next interaction before it's happened. Sometimes they literally move on the the next interaction: abruptly and with blithe unawareness of the sort of disconcerting social paradox it is. I suddenly feel like an imposition and that perhaps the connection we had minutes before wasn't real; that it was just them being friendly and me reading too much into it. Then I start replay the last few minutes and wondering if something I said instigated it. I tell myself it probably wasn't personal and they were just looking to switch things up and talk to someone different, but regardless I can't reconcile how quickly it happens. It seems like they must have been politely feigning their degree of interest and then it got to the point where they couldn't any more. And round and round my head it goes.

    That's the only problem I've had with ENFJs: I don't know where I stand with them. I have trouble interpreting what their thoughts are when there's these mixed messages. And it's hard for me to really properly invest in someone when I never feel secure in my connection with them. Consequently, I end up actively holding back parts of myself.

    The same thing happens with ESFJs it's usually only when I get too conceptual and I can see they're losing interest.
    This breaks it down well, only instead of their shift happening in a conversation, for me, I notice it in the course of the friendship. I call it yo-yo-ing. They pull you in, drop you, pull you back, etc. I imagine they are just juggling a lot of people. Once I catch onto that, I get resentful. I never feel insecure about them truly liking me, as I don't go quite that analytical with my social encounters (so last perhaps - I analyze far more with romantic potentials). I think there is genuine rapport, but they have a lot of people who fall into that category for them, and I have far fewer, and the unevenness bothers me. I don't like to feel less important to someone than they are to me. Because of this, it doesn't seem to get off the ground with ENFJs, as I never really know where I stand with them, and it seems to stagnate somewhere shallower than it promised. But oh, what it promised...

    There are the occasional ENFJs who strike me as really fake, but usually their heart is in the right place, so they don't bug me much. They may get slightly annoyed when I don't fall for their schtick.

    I have a harder time with ESFJs and being projected onto (they interpret my quietness as cold/rude), but at arm's length, they're usually fine. I like male ESFJs better, because that personality is less expected for a man.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  3. #43
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    When do INFPs start pushing people away from their life?

  4. #44
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    This breaks it down well, only instead of their shift happening in a conversation, for me, I notice it in the course of the friendship. I call it yo-yo-ing. They pull you in, drop you, pull you back, etc. I imagine they are just juggling a lot of people. Once I catch onto that, I get resentful. I never feel insecure about them truly liking me, as I don't go quite that analytical with my social encounters (so last perhaps - I analyze far more with romantic potentials). I think there is genuine rapport, but they have a lot of people who fall into that category for them, and I have far fewer, and the unevenness bothers me. I don't like to feel less important to someone than they are to me. Because of this, it doesn't seem to get off the ground with ENFJs, as I never really know where I stand with them, and it seems to stagnate somewhere shallower than it promised. But oh, what it promised...

    There are the occasional ENFJs who strike me as really fake, but usually their heart is in the right place, so they don't bug me much. They may get slightly annoyed when I don't fall for their schtick.

    I have a harder time with ESFJs and being projected onto (they interpret my quietness as cold/rude), but at arm's length, they're usually fine. I like male ESFJs better, because that personality is less expected for a man.
    Yeah, I think there's a short term and a long term version of the same thing that goes on. I'm probably more attuned to the moment to moment stuff, that's all.

    I think it is that they're juggling people, but this makes me think it's just a difference in values. To me if you click with someone and really get along well then you prioritize them, because that what I would naturally do. Perhaps I just find it hard to comprehend that another person would not feel a sense of compulsion from that connection. If they don't seem to show signs of that compulsion I tend to assume that the connection doesn't exist (which is confusing when there seemed to be a connection previously established - was it real or not?). It's possible that ENFJs are just so much more deliberate in their actions and that is what I find strange. Ne has that need to blindly chase after the source of inspiration, wherever it may lead, and I struggle to understand how this pull could be absent in others.

    It might simply be the case that ENFJs aren't great at seguing from one thing/idea/person to another. Perhaps the only way for them to change tack is to actively pull the plug on one interaction and plug into a new one and that creates the sense of abruptness.

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    When do INFPs start pushing people away from their life?
    I don't push, I just step back. It usually happens when I think the other person is someone who behaves or has behaved in ways that are contrary to my closely held values. I don't hate them or blame them necessarily (I don't tend to bear grudges); it's just that I can't genuinely invest myself in them in the same way knowing what I do about them. I don't tell them I'm doing it - I may even still smile and be pleasant with them. I just make a decision to hold them at arms length a little more, and stop seeking them out.

    As an example: I had a friend at uni who actively destroyed another couple's relationship so she could steal the guy for herself and did it in an underhand manner. This is bad enough, but she then embarked on a weird, obsessive relationship with the guy and behaved in a strange, aloof manner whenever I bumped into them (hard to explain). Additionally, she behaved selfishly when moving out of a flat with mutual friends, when one was really struggling over her father's death. It was enough to really put me off her. I still like her and spent time with her after that, but it's never going to be the same.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I find myself annoyed that you poke at this aspect of difference quite frequently, because although it makes a difference in how our outward demeanor or behaviour may manifest, it does not affect how your words resonate with me as an INFP.

    What makes the most difference to me, in terms of outward demeanor, is the orientation of the instinctual subtype rather than core e-type. The e9 sp types I know are very withdrawn and effacing. The e4 sp types I know seem finicky and aloof. (iow, both seem a bit "cooler"). I only know one other e9 so dom like myself, and we are outward-facing and attempt to draw other Fi types "out" because we can sense what's inside there, waiting to get out. It was great actually to understand the enneagram because it lent a system to explain how these outer differences still made "sense".
    As a fellow INFP E9 so/sx, I relate a lot to drawing fi types out however it's not exclusive to Fi. I befriend shy people because I empathise with their desire for recognition and acceptance and I feel obligated to assist them. It is about variants since so/sx types are in the syn-flow configuration, compelled toward people whereas sp/sx are in the contra-flow configuration, compelled away from people.

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    When do INFPs start pushing people away from their life?
    This gives me an impression of someone who has trust issues. As an e9 so/sx, I'm the opposite, I'm drawn toward people.

    When someone does irritate or disrespect me repeatedly, I drop them, swiftly and mercilessly. I'm speaking of close relationships with people and not just a random acquaintance. A lot of it is to maintain my own sanity however it's also to conserve energy since as an e9, I tend to let everything build up only to see it later turn into a messy affair.

    I dropped a close friend in January, he was too spiteful, envious, and full of snide remarks. Three years into the friendship and I felt myself lose my peaceful demeanour dealing with him, he bought out the worst in me. Last year in September, I realised I had to be done with him and at the beginning of this year, I implemented my plan and completely cut off contact with him. I knew he was hurt but I didn't care, I was relieved, I regained my sanity. We're on good terms, I was cordial, however I wouldn't let him into my inner circle again.
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  6. #46
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    When do INFPs start pushing people away from their life?
    I never really feel like I push people away. I'm sure I do, but I don't experience it that way. I experience it as withdrawing, not pushing.

    I will quote SK, since she summed it up well again....

    However, perhaps due to stronger sx or just a more cantankerous nature, I do hold grudges and sometimes hate people. I don't do that with most people, but those I was very close to whom I ended up pulling away from. It depends if I feel a betrayal from them or a deep hurt, especially if I think they know better, if they seem to lack remorse, and/or if they show no intention to change what needs to be changed should a relationship continue.

    Like SK, I've had friends who did nothing to me, but their choices indicated things about them that I could not abide by. I didn't feel like I could sincerely support that person as a friend, so I started to naturally pull back. Again, I tend to experience things/people as responding to them, not formulating a judgement & plan of action for it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I don't push, I just step back. It usually happens when I think the other person is someone who behaves or has behaved in ways that are contrary to my closely held values. I don't hate them or blame them necessarily (I don't tend to bear grudges); it's just that I can't genuinely invest myself in them in the same way knowing what I do about them. I don't tell them I'm doing it - I may even still smile and be pleasant with them. I just make a decision to hold them at arms length a little more, and stop seeking them out.

    As an example: I had a friend at uni who actively destroyed another couple's relationship so she could steal the guy for herself and did it in an underhand manner. This is bad enough, but she then embarked on a weird, obsessive relationship with the guy and behaved in a strange, aloof manner whenever I bumped into them (hard to explain). Additionally, she behaved selfishly when moving out of a flat with mutual friends, when one was really struggling over her father's death. It was enough to really put me off her. I still like her and spent time with her after that, but it's never going to be the same.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #47
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    As you know, INFP is a self-effacing type, we're rarely jealous of others and project that good intention onto others. How do you respond to jealousy? I don't mean jealous feelings, I mean people being jealous of you, having bad intentions for you? I find it makes me uncomfortable, releases the monster within me, I struggle to comprehend it.

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  8. #48
    A Gentle Whisper ~MS*ANGEL~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    As you know, INFP is a self-effacing type, we're rarely jealous of others and project that good intention onto others. How do you respond to jealousy? I don't mean jealous feelings, I mean people being jealous of you, having bad intentions for you? I find it makes me uncomfortable, releases the monster within me, I struggle to comprehend it.
    I just steer clear of such people as often as I can - otherwise, their negativity drags me down.
    Though most of the time, I fail to understand why anyone would be jealous of me anyway.
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  9. #49
    yap yap yap xenaprincess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    As you know, INFP is a self-effacing type, we're rarely jealous of others and project that good intention onto others. How do you respond to jealousy? I don't mean jealous feelings, I mean people being jealous of you, having bad intentions for you? I find it makes me uncomfortable, releases the monster within me, I struggle to comprehend it.
    I'm working with a client who can be quite nasty. She has been directly nasty to several people on this project, not just me, but she shows a special vehemence toward me, for whatever reason. The nastiness is her being angry about mistakes.

    I've been yelled at in the face, and have had long emails written to me about my shortcomings and written to my boss. She has asked other people whether they've encountered trouble working with me in the past. I hate confrontation, and I used to be much more sensitive, to the point of feeling physical pain. Anyway, I feel extreme discomfort. I never respond verbally right away. In email, I usually am neutral or apologetic.

    I naturally err on the side of not saying anything (and beating myself up for it), over blurting something out in my own defense. I wish I had a monster within, though.

  10. #50
    an abyss of Nothingness Arctic Hysteria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    As you know, INFP is a self-effacing type, we're rarely jealous of others and project that good intention onto others. How do you respond to jealousy? I don't mean jealous feelings, I mean people being jealous of you, having bad intentions for you? I find it makes me uncomfortable, releases the monster within me, I struggle to comprehend it.
    Self-effacing is quite a correct word haha

    I find it odd, offensive and very disheartening when somebody feels jealous of me.
    I am not (and hardly any INFP is) a go-getter and competitive.
    I don't look at a rich person and jealous of what they have (but rather think about how some are filthy rich while some are just barely making ends meet and I pay attention to the unfortunate).
    I've always been the one that wait in line for everything because I can't help thinking about how somebody else deserves / is in need of something more than I do. I'm the type that say "you can go ahead first" too often. Things I've achieved are from sweat, tears and, thank goodness, some intelligence. If anyone can be jealous of the kind of person who can never step on anybody like me, they have some big issue.

    If the jealousy is obvious, I will call them out on it. Something like, "Hey, it looks like it bothers you that [ fill in the blank ]" and I'll welcome the war.
    I avoid confrontations and interactions. But this kind of shit needs to be called out. I refuse to ignore the ugly elephant in the room, refuse to suffer from the poisonous atmosphere and the negative energy such shit produce.
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