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  1. #71
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    that's all cool but you know it's not how it was meant. i will forever sit wherever i damn well want. and those "adults" can like or dislike whatever i bring to that table but they won't stop me from bringin it.

    i mean the nerve!
    Yeah I'm sorry I'm not sure how to take this either! I was just teasing Z because he's kinda stubborn sometimes... but I think he has a little ENFP inside... I didn't mean any harm to anyone else or any implications about anything else...

  2. #72
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Yeah I'm sorry I'm not sure how to take this either! I was just teasing Z because he's kinda stubborn sometimes... but I think he has a little ENFP inside... I didn't mean any harm to anyone else or any implications about anything else...
    just not diggin the mocking tone. he didn't mean it all cute like.

  3. #73
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    just not diggin the mocking tone. he didn't mean it all cute like.
    No, me neither... nor the belittling... that was why I made my long post at at all... originally I was just going to comment on the posts that made my heart swell... then I felt like what he was saying was neither very fair or very accurate... but his comment about wanting to be at the ENFP table was cute seeming to me. If he meant it otherwise, I misread. I feel like I can't do anything right by other ENFPs nowadays.

  4. #74
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    No, me neither... nor the belittling... that was why I made my long post at at all... originally I was just going to comment on the posts that made my heart swell... then I felt like what he was saying was neither very fair or very accurate... but his comment about wanting to be at the ENFP table was cute seeming to me. If he meant it otherwise, I misread.
    not in genuine cute way tho. more...let me get away with it way.

  5. #75
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Z, put aside the political specifics. No one here is claiming that Russell Brand should be our new world leader, and that he has devised a flawless political system. I made it a point to say verbal fireworks, in hopes that people would understand that I wanted to focus on the effect of his words, not critique the content. That's what's important when listening to Russell Brand. To get bogged down in the political nitty-gritty of this interview is to miss the point, even outside the context of my OP.

    Brand did not go into that interview to espouse a specific solution to save the world, he was just defending himself against harshly framed questions. The exchange opens with Jeremy sneering at Russell for guesting-editing a political magazine. Russell kind of chuckles and straight-up admits he doesn't know very much about politics and that he accepted the job as editor out of sheer novelty. He really wasn't trying to cut a serious figure, and yet Paxton came after him pretty hard, and kept putting him down. No wonder Brand got so worked up, and vented his "ressentiment" (I don't like this word, unless I'm writing in French), Paxton was trivializing the validity of Brand's core values.

    The interview wouldn't have been forced to get all politically specific if Paxton didn't come out and say: all your political beliefs are invalid because you don't vote. You don't like the political system--explain why and now construct a model for your ideal government. If you can't do that, you have no business guest-editing a political magazine. Paxton backed him into a corner.

    I think Russell makes a good point when he says:



    I mean, most everyone would be hard-pressed to do so on the spot, especially if you didn't expect that to come up in the interview. And Russell, as he himself admitted, is not qualified to run the world and decide exactly how it's going to be run. He has no political experience and has no formal education beyond a high school diploma. He is merely giving a voice to the disillusioned, inarticulate masses, who don't have a platform to champion different leaders and alternative politics that might serve them better. And that is what ENFP's do best (Mostly the point of my OP). They aren't systems builders, they are powerful, captivating voices. As Jung put it, Ne-doms are "the natural champion of all minorities with a future".

    It's easy to make someone look stupid by asking them to work within your limits. Brand's not going to look good if you ask him to play world leader, and it's a bit nutty to ask of him in the first place. Russell was speaking from a place of values and experience, not political science. Brand didn't frame the interview like that, Paxton did. To me, it was a power move, an attempt to humiliate and dismiss Russell, by rigging the conversational game. But really, by being so tough on him, it just made Brand look more credible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Yeah...some people judge on sensory perception as opposed to the words. They judge on partials instead of the big picture.
    I'm so relieved that you addressed these points above.

    I'm pretty much gonna say what I think, if you don't like it, don't read it.

    I have to say...I think this is giving me rage.

    I loathe that journalist. I'm hoping he is just "acting" like that. And isn't just a self righteous, ignorant, prick.

    I find it kind of simple minded that Brand should have to explain himself.

    The journalist was ignoring the intention behind why Brand doesn't vote...I knew Brand's intention before he had to say it..... at 9:27.. That he's not going to contribute to the facade...duh????

    It's the same reason I don't vote. Nor anyone I fucking know...


    The journalist isn't even making a fucking point...he just keeps asking simple minded fucking questions....that are leading no where...

    "oh you don't vote?"

    Definition from a simple minded person's perspective of: you don't vote/ Meaning you don't believe in democracy...(I was waiting for him to call him unpatriotic )

    Brand obviously lays it out for the simple folk, that what we have isn't a democracy...it's a facade where the elite rule. oh gasp



    I actually don't understand why everyone's calling him emotional. The journalist was more emotional than Brand was...(uptight jerk)

    Brand only said he was mad...at the end.



    The point is, no one knows the answer. That's the way life is. There is no truth like @Amargith said. Everything is perception and no one is better than anyone.

    The only fucking thing we can do is learn what we do want, from knowing what we don't want...and that's exactly what Brand is talking about...He clearly defined what's wrong.


    Furthermore

    he can't be a "know-nothing"

    That contradicts his position of power....duh?

    Definition: He is in the business that fucking influences people. Definition: Influencing people = power.

    He is about to be the editor of a political magazine. <--Brand is ugly as all holy hell...so he couldn't have fucking gotten there on looks alone......goes without saying he must know
    something, even if it's one god forsaken thing that the rest of us don't know.

    Why do things always need to be spelled out? I find that irritating.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  6. #76
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    right...thanks for bringing that back around.

    that is exactly it. it's close minded...it's so far removed from the point that it's like trying to speak caveman.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    To be honest, I just want to post this video. have you guys seen this BBC interview of Russell Brand? It's getting me all fired up. The last 3 minutes or so are intense!

    This is a great example of an ENFP in advocate mode:

    What do you guys think of that? I'm not sure if I agree with every last thing he says, but by God, he knows how to say it.
    I like Brand and I appreciate his sincerity, but I don't see how he's contributing anything useful. We don't need to be told that there are major problems going unaddressed, and we aren't lacking in inspirational voices. We already have cause to be concerned about these issues. What the general population doesn't have is the knowledge to actively participate in change, and Brand isn't presenting anything of substance. (Although maybe he could have if the interviewer had let him?)

  8. #78
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    not in genuine cute way tho. more...let me get away with it way.
    ^Not to mention the sensor jab which looks like the equivalent of TypeC Racism.


    @skylights I want to thank you for articulating something that I've been trying to piece together and wrap my head around for ages. This thread has been a bit of an emotional roller coaster ride for me and I honestly did not see this coming. It tapped into an internal conflict which has been going on inside of me forever and bit by bit, with each enfp (and infp!) contribution, it is helped me lift the fog and finally sort this shit out. @Lady X, the same goes for your follow up on my previous post; it is nice to see this isn't just all in my head and I aint alone in this.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  9. #79
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Exclusion comes in all different kinds of packages...that's for sure. Types, tables, and then the hidden passive kind. I think I prefer the blatant variety myself (at least it's honest)...but that's just me.

    /hates phony bullshit

  10. #80
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decrescendo View Post
    I like Brand and I appreciate his sincerity, but I don't see how he's contributing anything useful. We don't need to be told that there are major problems going unaddressed, and we aren't lacking in inspirational voices. We already have cause to be concerned about these issues. What the general population doesn't have is the knowledge to actively participate in change, and Brand isn't presenting anything of substance. (Although maybe he could have if the interviewer had let him?)
    I guess I see what u mean...but I don't think I agree....

    Brand even said he has been busy trying to get the job...and not been able to sort out all of the nitty gritty details of the future.

    Its like the journalist isn't even giving him a chance. He just got the job...and I'm sure he has not even begun to learn how political that job alone will be. (I purely mean the job duties)

    I think having someone like this helps even out the extreme we have going on with corporations and the government.

    At least he is acknowledging what is wrong and saying we need to revamp the system. I don't think he can go any further than where has anyways because its not like he can speak for every citizen...

    That's real democracy... where the people are truly represented.

    And I don't see too many ppl in the public eye...out right saying and making an example or statement like "people need to wake up" and that we need to revolutionize the system.

    Also going off what he is saying...not just one man/or the few elite should be putting out his views/ideas/solution but we need to have a more holistic approach...where multiple solutions are incorporated. Its time for people to wake up and do shit themselves..not let a select few run things and then we blame the select few for shit not working out..
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

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