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[MBTI General] Okay, please don't take this the wrong way...

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
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Okay, I am curious. Please do not take this the wrong way. I'm new and still learning.

I was curious as to whether or not NF types actually express themselves differently than NT types. Or do they exhibit the same behaviors but act for different reasons? In other words, do they come to similar conclusions through different means, or do they come to totally different conclusions?

Although I realize there are some threads about this, this distinction is not really apparent to me. Perhaps someone can clarify in simpler terms.

Related to another thread on here: Do NF males exhibit different behavior than NF females?

Or do all NFs and NTs act differently regardless of gender?

Just curious - I am really not trying to start a whirlwind. I would just like to have a definitive, clear answer, if possible.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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Actually, Little, I'd say that besides the S/N difference among types, the biggest difference is between a male and female of the same type. Male ISTJs, to me, don't act like ISTJ females. Same with my type, ENFJ. We have a lot of common ground, but I find the dynamic changes quite a lot with gender. My friend Taco is ENFJ and we kill ourselves laughing, but he's a lot more aggressive and verbal than me.

And please feel free to ask any questions you may have! :)
 

cafe

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I know that my husband (INTP) and I act pretty differently. I'm more outgoing and warm while he is withdrawn or silly. We find that we do come to a lot of the same conclusions via very different means.

As far as gender/type behavior, I don't have enough data to have formed a solid opinion.
 

Geoff

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Actually, Little, I'd say that besides the S/N difference among types, the biggest difference is between a male and female of the same type. Male ISTJs, to me, don't act like ISTJ females. Same with my type, ENFJ. We have a lot of common ground, but I find the dynamic changes quite a lot with gender. My friend Taco is ENFJ and we kill ourselves laughing, but he's a lot more aggressive and verbal than me.

And please feel free to ask any questions you may have! :)

I don't agree... I'd just say it more likely that the male / female differences where the type is the same may be mistyping. Are you sure of the types (ie are these from validated tests, rather than you ascribing types to these people?)

In my experience, people of both genders but the same type (types confirmed by formal testing) act largely the same. i can think of 4 ISTJs in my workplace, 2 male and 2 female, and the similarities are scary. I struggle to think of any noticeable personality differences. Similarly, I know some female INTPs who are remarkably similar to the male INTPs.

I'd say that when there is a perceived male/female difference it is often a mistyping in disguise.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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Okay, I am curious. Please do not take this the wrong way. I'm new and still learning.

I was curious as to whether or not NF types actually express themselves differently than NT types. Or do they exhibit the same behaviors but act for different reasons? In other words, do they come to similar conclusions through different means, or do they come to totally different conclusions?
My understanding is that the types are basically descriptions of cognitive processing styles. While these can have behavioral implications, there is a tendency to overemphasize these behavioral aspects in discussions. For example, ascribing a temper, low self-esteem, arrogance, morality, kindness, sensuality, etc. to a particular type has problems. Our environments, beliefs, culture, etc. all influence our behaviors. Our temperaments determine how we process these. The way one thinks about a scenario can have some influence on their behavior, but the external input likely has more influence. I'm in the camp that sees value in focusing more on discussions on cognitive processing over external behavior for a number of reasons: it is based core concepts that have more universal applications, and it has less judgmental implications - it's too abstract for snap judgments and prejudicial thinking.

I don't consider myself an expert on this, but I do appreciate the complexities involved in people. You might not get much clarity on the subject because there are not clear distinctions available?

I'd say that when there is a perceived male/female difference it is often a mistyping in disguise.
Good point
 

Haphazard

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I'd say that when there is a perceived male/female difference it is often a mistyping in disguise.

QFT.

The biggest difference in emotional expression comes from the last two letters.

TPs put emotions through that Ti machine to see why and if they're valid, TJs may have strong emotions but will try to tone them down for objectivity's and professionalism's sake, FJs will use emotions as a bargaining chip, and FPs will see emotion as an end in and of itself.

This doesn't really change through gender. I guess the thing that would most change would be FJs (because the way emotional barganing goes with men and women is different in society) followed by the TJs (who would find expression as a means to an end, so it may be useful). FPs and TPs don't really change, though.
 

Totenkindly

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In my experience, people of both genders but the same type (types confirmed by formal testing) act largely the same. i can think of 4 ISTJs in my workplace, 2 male and 2 female, and the similarities are scary. I struggle to think of any noticeable personality differences. Similarly, I know some female INTPs who are remarkably similar to the male INTPs.

I guess I've seen pairs of each in my experience. Maybe even three categories -- a feminine version, a masculine version, and a gray ambiguous version in between that includes people from both genders.

Unfortunately, it's hard to quantify, it's more of an aura/feeling.

Again, I usually go back to the "slider" concept. Every attribute works on a slider, and you can sometimes create people who look similar depending on how you move the sliders, even if they don't share the same initial ranges of parameters. (minor example: Why SFPs sometimes get mistaken for N's...)
 

Domino

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I don't agree... I'd just say it more likely that the male / female differences where the type is the same may be mistyping. Are you sure of the types (ie are these from validated tests, rather than you ascribing types to these people?)

Here, I only cite the people I know who've been tested. :yes: By difference, I mean that the women make ISTJ personality more "female" than the men, not that they act COMPLETELY different. When it's said that a house needs a woman's touch, what is meant is that the house needs female energy. You can tell when you walk into a man's home if he lives alone or with a woman. See what I mean? :)

I apologize for not being clearer.

I'd say that when there is a perceived male/female difference it is often a mistyping in disguise.

That could certainly be the case in many instances.
 

Leysing

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I suppose that, regardless of type, there are differences between the behaviour of men and women, and that those differences are largely cultural. Little girls and little boys are encouraged to behave differently since early childhood. Some kind of behaviour is valued among women and in the same time discouraged among men. The gender roles imposed upon people sure must have some kind of effect in everyone of us, affecting our behaviour and attitudes.
 

Geoff

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I suppose that, regardless of type, there are differences between the behaviour of men and women, and that those differences are largely cultural. Little girls and little boys are encouraged to behave differently since early childhood. Some kind of behaviour is valued among women and in the same time discouraged among men. The gender roles imposed upon people sure must have some kind of effect in everyone of us, affecting our behaviour and attitudes.

Are these learned, or inherent? I suppose my question is : if you brought up a female ESFP as a man, would they act just the same as a male ESFP? I would say yet.. so there are some behaviours that are learned differently, but the inherent type is the same.

We tend to ascribe "F" to women and "T" to men before we know them, as a broad, broad, horrid generalisation. It's a working assumption for the human world.
 

disregard

mrs
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Yes.. I think the visible differences between the two genders of the same type would be learned behaviors aquired to adjust to the political climate of one's environment. In a relaxed environment, I would be inclined to believe that they would be much more similar.
 

Totenkindly

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Here, I only cite the people I know who've been tested. :yes: By difference, I mean that the women make ISTJ personality more "female" than the men, not that they act COMPLETELY different. When it's said that a house needs a woman's touch, what is meant is that the house needs female energy. You can tell when you walk into a man's home if he lives alone or with a woman. See what I mean? :)

Yup.

You go to an ISTJ woman's house, I guarantee it will feel different than an ISTJ man's. Even if both tend to organize.

That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about, the feel is different.

Are these learned, or inherent? I suppose my question is : if you brought up a female ESFP as a man, would they act just the same as a male ESFP?

I doubt it -- especially if you start watching their interactions in the romantic/sexual area. Broad tendencies might be the same, but how they interact will be different, in terms of the nuances of power, control, dominance, submission, and sexuality.
 

Geoff

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Yup.

You go to an ISTJ woman's house, I guarantee it will feel different than an ISTJ man's. Even if both tend to organize.

That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about, the feel is different.



I doubt it -- especially if you start watching their interactions in the romantic/sexual area. Broad tendencies might be the same, but how they interact will be different, in terms of the nuances of power, control, dominance, submission, and sexuality.

In my somewhat limited understanding of sexuality, seems like most relationships have a butch and a femme (the lesbian wording for dominant partner and submissive partner respectively). Now, in a heterosexual couple the butch is usually the man, but not always. I'm sure you can think of examples of hetero couples where the woman is dominant. I wonder how that would interact with your comment than the women would react differently on those nuances? I'd guess that the preferred sexual role would be important here, not the gender that usually possesses it.
 

Totenkindly

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In my somewhat limited understanding of sexuality, seems like most relationships have a butch and a femme (the lesbian wording for dominant partner and submissive partner respectively). Now, in a heterosexual couple the butch is usually the man, but not always. I'm sure you can think of examples of hetero couples where the woman is dominant. I wonder how that would interact with your comment than the women would react differently on those nuances? I'd guess that the preferred sexual role would be important here, not the gender that usually possesses it.

That's a good point. The funny thing is that I still don't think "butch women" read as "male." I was just at the lesbo bar the other night, packed full of gals, and they still read as women no matter how they look or what role they play.

But you pick a good angle to pursue, it's worth digging deeper into... i'm sorry I don't have enuf time right this sec to go further.
 

alcea rosea

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I'd say that when there is a perceived male/female difference it is often a mistyping in disguise.

Not necessarily. I know 2 ENTJ's, one female and the other male. The female ENTJ is much more tough than the male one. (Both have their type defined in official MBTI course, by the way.) The male feels even warm so I thought that he must be F (I thought he was ENFJ because he felt very similar to ENFJ's I know) before he told me his type. So, at least regarding to T-F difference and female being T and men F, there could be a gender difference.

I wouldn't think that there is a S or N gender diffence for some reason.

But of course, my real life sample is very small and I could be wrong. ;)
 

Geoff

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Not necessarily. I know 2 ENTJ's, one female and the other male. The female ENTJ is much more tough than the male one. (Both have their type defined in official MBTI course, by the way.) The male feels even warm so I thought that he must be F (I thought he was ENFJ because he felt very similar to ENFJ's I know) before he told me his type. So, at least regarding to T-F difference and female being T and men F, there could be a gender difference.

I wouldn't think that there is a S or N gender diffence for some reason.

But of course, my real life sample is very small and I could be wrong. ;)

Maybe, the female is a butch, and the male a femme? (see above)
 

Aerithria

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Sometimes gender differences are more due to the perception of the observer rather than an actual difference among the people involved. For example, INTJ women are often said to be more noticeably agressive or cold than INTJ men, when in reality this is due to society's dictation that women should be softer, so the coldness is less accepted in the women and therefore more noticeable. The same could be said of other men/women differences, like how men are 'supposed' to behave more T than F, so a male F is more noticeable than a female F.

Then again, I'm not a huge supporter of the gender binary, which means I'm sometimes likely to discount an actual variance due to gender as something much more mundane.
 

Little Linguist

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Thank you for your replies - you have all helped to make things clearer for me.
 
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