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  1. #11
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leysing View Post
    I suppose that, regardless of type, there are differences between the behaviour of men and women, and that those differences are largely cultural. Little girls and little boys are encouraged to behave differently since early childhood. Some kind of behaviour is valued among women and in the same time discouraged among men. The gender roles imposed upon people sure must have some kind of effect in everyone of us, affecting our behaviour and attitudes.
    Are these learned, or inherent? I suppose my question is : if you brought up a female ESFP as a man, would they act just the same as a male ESFP? I would say yet.. so there are some behaviours that are learned differently, but the inherent type is the same.

    We tend to ascribe "F" to women and "T" to men before we know them, as a broad, broad, horrid generalisation. It's a working assumption for the human world.

  2. #12
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Yes.. I think the visible differences between the two genders of the same type would be learned behaviors aquired to adjust to the political climate of one's environment. In a relaxed environment, I would be inclined to believe that they would be much more similar.

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Here, I only cite the people I know who've been tested. By difference, I mean that the women make ISTJ personality more "female" than the men, not that they act COMPLETELY different. When it's said that a house needs a woman's touch, what is meant is that the house needs female energy. You can tell when you walk into a man's home if he lives alone or with a woman. See what I mean?
    Yup.

    You go to an ISTJ woman's house, I guarantee it will feel different than an ISTJ man's. Even if both tend to organize.

    That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about, the feel is different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Are these learned, or inherent? I suppose my question is : if you brought up a female ESFP as a man, would they act just the same as a male ESFP?
    I doubt it -- especially if you start watching their interactions in the romantic/sexual area. Broad tendencies might be the same, but how they interact will be different, in terms of the nuances of power, control, dominance, submission, and sexuality.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yup.

    You go to an ISTJ woman's house, I guarantee it will feel different than an ISTJ man's. Even if both tend to organize.

    That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about, the feel is different.



    I doubt it -- especially if you start watching their interactions in the romantic/sexual area. Broad tendencies might be the same, but how they interact will be different, in terms of the nuances of power, control, dominance, submission, and sexuality.
    In my somewhat limited understanding of sexuality, seems like most relationships have a butch and a femme (the lesbian wording for dominant partner and submissive partner respectively). Now, in a heterosexual couple the butch is usually the man, but not always. I'm sure you can think of examples of hetero couples where the woman is dominant. I wonder how that would interact with your comment than the women would react differently on those nuances? I'd guess that the preferred sexual role would be important here, not the gender that usually possesses it.

  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    In my somewhat limited understanding of sexuality, seems like most relationships have a butch and a femme (the lesbian wording for dominant partner and submissive partner respectively). Now, in a heterosexual couple the butch is usually the man, but not always. I'm sure you can think of examples of hetero couples where the woman is dominant. I wonder how that would interact with your comment than the women would react differently on those nuances? I'd guess that the preferred sexual role would be important here, not the gender that usually possesses it.
    That's a good point. The funny thing is that I still don't think "butch women" read as "male." I was just at the lesbo bar the other night, packed full of gals, and they still read as women no matter how they look or what role they play.

    But you pick a good angle to pursue, it's worth digging deeper into... i'm sorry I don't have enuf time right this sec to go further.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I'd say that when there is a perceived male/female difference it is often a mistyping in disguise.
    Not necessarily. I know 2 ENTJ's, one female and the other male. The female ENTJ is much more tough than the male one. (Both have their type defined in official MBTI course, by the way.) The male feels even warm so I thought that he must be F (I thought he was ENFJ because he felt very similar to ENFJ's I know) before he told me his type. So, at least regarding to T-F difference and female being T and men F, there could be a gender difference.

    I wouldn't think that there is a S or N gender diffence for some reason.

    But of course, my real life sample is very small and I could be wrong.

  7. #17
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcea Rosea View Post
    Not necessarily. I know 2 ENTJ's, one female and the other male. The female ENTJ is much more tough than the male one. (Both have their type defined in official MBTI course, by the way.) The male feels even warm so I thought that he must be F (I thought he was ENFJ because he felt very similar to ENFJ's I know) before he told me his type. So, at least regarding to T-F difference and female being T and men F, there could be a gender difference.

    I wouldn't think that there is a S or N gender diffence for some reason.

    But of course, my real life sample is very small and I could be wrong.
    Maybe, the female is a butch, and the male a femme? (see above)

  8. #18
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Maybe, the female is a butch, and the male a femme? (see above)
    lol, maybe.

  9. #19
    Senior Thread Terminator Aerithria's Avatar
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    Sometimes gender differences are more due to the perception of the observer rather than an actual difference among the people involved. For example, INTJ women are often said to be more noticeably agressive or cold than INTJ men, when in reality this is due to society's dictation that women should be softer, so the coldness is less accepted in the women and therefore more noticeable. The same could be said of other men/women differences, like how men are 'supposed' to behave more T than F, so a male F is more noticeable than a female F.

    Then again, I'm not a huge supporter of the gender binary, which means I'm sometimes likely to discount an actual variance due to gender as something much more mundane.
    [insert funny quote/saying/etc.]

  10. #20
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Thank you for your replies - you have all helped to make things clearer for me.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

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