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  1. #1
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    Exclamation Going Toe to Toe with an ENTJ

    Hey friends,
    Has anybody here ever had to compete for the affections of someone with an ENTJ?

    I, an ENFJ, am feeling a little outclassed. ENTJs are naturally more "masculine" seeming, they're master strategists in my experience and they find ways of getting what they want without letting anybody know the messed up ways they get there.

    The only flaws I've noticed in the one I'm sizing up are that he's lacking a certain character (he hides it well), he's lazy (he doesn't hide that well) and right now he's got a better physique than I do, but that's something I'm working on (and succeeding).

    I've challenged him to a competition next year; a twelve mile obstacle course race that is certain to tear apart everybody who's not ready for it. At that point I should be at my ideal weight and have been through plenty of training. Honestly, I don't care if he marries my love interest by then, this is actually more about him and me then it is about her. It's personal. I want to wipe that condescending grin off his face. But I know the only way to do that is to sink to his level; be conniving without anybody noticing.

    I've also got diplomacy in my favor. I can be devious as f**k if I really want to be...I think it's time to awaken some of those instincts and see if I can get a little foreknowledge about the course. Any other suggestions would be helpful. Even if you've gotten beat, I might be able to learn from it. EVEN if you've dated one. What weaknesses should I exploit? Muhuhahaha.
    Love is the point.

  2. #2
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Youre NF. Charm, people skills and a silver tongue are your weapons. Getting distracted with what the competition does aint. In fact, if you want the girl, you are, imo, letting your own insecurities set you up for failure.

    Remember the girl is a person, not some trophy. Tbh, right now, based on the limited info youve provided, you aint worthy of her. He has got your attention, not her.

    If you truly were embracing your NF strenghts and were truly in love with her, she'd be getting your undivided attention, focus so you can find out if youre even compatible and have a future together. The other guy would be an afterthought if that. Your connection would be what matters. So please do her a favour and leave her out of this testosterone driven ego fest.

    Fwiw, i do think that with her out of the picture, you and the entj could learn and grow a lot together through this competition, so good luck in that endeavour
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #3
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    Calm yourself kitty. I don't think I can win her through competition and she's definitely no trophy. It's less about winning her and more about beating him. :-) The former isn't going to happen from a race, but training for it, becoming more athletic and agile, showing that win or lose I know how to ruff it with the boys...yeah...that stuff does work.
    Love is the point.

  4. #4
    Ginkgo
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    Yes! Yes! Conceal your grotesquely repulsive amorality!

    Brilliant. Stupendous. Amazing. Fantastic.

    The kids at home will go nuts!

    I can't believe you didn't think of this sooner!

  5. #5
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    (October 2004, Chiayi, Taiwan)

    Most rutting contests involve two male mammals, like the Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep (Ovis dallis), which ram into each other at high speed in order to impress a female sheep and win the right to procreate.

    These mammals tend to have unusually thick skulls and extra fluid surrounding the brain to prevent damage from the competition. Humans tend not to have such thick skulls and other natural adaptations, and therefore do not generally rut.

    Of course, man, the tool user, can find artificial means to overcome natural limitations. One well-known example of this behavior is the medieval jousting contest in which participants wear armor and ride horses toward each other at high speed.

    The most recent observation of human rutting behavior occurred when two Taiwanese university students donned protective helmets and revved their motor scooters in an effort to impress a comely female of their species. The two were the same class, but not friends. Other classmates reported that both men fancied the same female student.

    After indulging in a few drinks during the Mid-Autumn Festival, the two encountered each other, and words were spoken. The gauntlet was thrown down. In lieu of horses, the two would ride their motor scooters at each other at high speed, and the one who didn't turn away would win the exclusive right to pursue the female.

    Obviously both were very keen on her, because neither of them turned away. Their scooters collided head-on at 50 mph. Both died instantly.

    The girl at the center of the rut refused to comment, other than to say that she "wasn't interested in either of them."
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  6. #6
    Riva
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    There is a chance that he would turn your victory into a joke. He might simply laugh it off if he desires to stoop down that low. Also by putting so much effort into this implies that you care how you come across to him. If you really want to teach him a lesson just don't care about him.

  7. #7
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Acknowledging that his condescension is a threat to you is what gives him power over you... just my own opinion, I think you should shine in your own light and not worry about him... train to win against yourself instead of against him. I'm competitive too, and I understand what a difficult mental shift that is, but it is SO empowering. When you let go of the competition, everyone can be a winner in their own right. Not to be offensive, but you sort of already have sunken to his level of basing self-worth off comparison with others.

    I say this especially because personally, as a chick, I'd be kind of unimpressed by the competition. I mean, I think it's awesome if you want to train to succeed on a grueling course, but I'd be way more impressed if you were doing it for your own self-improvement, not because you feel inferior to some other guy. What I look for in a partner is his ability to get along with and take care of me, not how he stacks up in physical prowess against the crowd. Ultimately who I choose is not about who is the "better" man, but who is the better man for me, and that isn't the guy who's focusing on one-upping his peers, but the guy who is focused on me.

    I'm in favor of @Riva's suggestion - IMO the best plan would be to drop the competition all together because you have "more important" things going on in your life, sign up for another course to continue with the self-improvement, and pull out all the stops on your ENFJ charm and surprise the girl with a beautiful setup.

  8. #8
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    Skylights, I think that's very good. I'm beginning to realize that female attraction happens at the crossroads of testosterone and true civility (yes they do cross...). Pure competition for romance is all about testosterone and not about civility at all. Shining my own light is the key here.

    This is why I love the internet. People will rip you to shreds, but sometimes they give you the honest truth about where you stand. Not bad internet. Not bad. :-) Thanks all.
    Love is the point.

  9. #9
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopherRed View Post
    Skylights, I think that's very good. I'm beginning to realize that female attraction happens at the crossroads of testosterone and true civility (yes they do cross...). Pure competition for romance is all about testosterone and not about civility at all. Shining my own light is the key here.

    This is why I love the internet. People will rip you to shreds, but sometimes they give you the honest truth about where you stand. Not bad internet. Not bad. :-) Thanks all.

    Oh I am so glad to see you reply this way I didn't want to be hurtful but that is how I see it, and I think you're much better off in the long run both with the girl and just for your own self-worth that way! You seem like a great guy and I'd hate to see you put your naturally affable, positive personality on the backburner.

  10. #10
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Throw the documents to owning a new business into the air, then as they turn in shock, push whoever it is into the mud.

    Then they cry and wet themselves, works every time......or at least it did in infant school.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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