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  1. #31
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I had a long-term attempt at a friendship with a fellow INFP musicians, and it took us like six months to get together to have coffee, which was okay, but then she would sometimes snub me at work meetings. I was quiet, depressed, and withdrawn at one and she initiated some interaction. I think she actually got offended a couple of times when I sent out a business related email to her without personalizing it. I think there was just a lot of miscommunication or something. This went on for years and is actually still happening, although I haven't seen her in quite a while. I ended up getting hurt enough times that I just feel comfortably distant from her, but I don't begrudge her for not feeling a connection with me.

    People are just really complicated, but for some reason I find attempts at initiating INFP friendships the most difficult, even though my mother and sister are Fi-doms and I get along quite well with both. My sister was my best friend throughout all of childhood and adolescence and still now. I'm even used to INTP distance which is sometimes famous within families, so I should be well trained for this.
    Although I'm not the "take offense to everything" type, I have rightfully earned labels such as "cold, difficult, too independent." Its been said that getting anything out of me is like pulling teeth, but worse. It sounds like your co-worker is really sensitive and needs an astronomy class to teach her the world doesn't revolve around her.
    I N V I C T U S

  2. #32
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I had a long-term attempt at a friendship with a fellow INFP musicians, and it took us like six months to get together to have coffee, which was okay, but then she would sometimes snub me at work meetings. I was quiet, depressed, and withdrawn at one and she initiated some interaction. I think she actually got offended a couple of times when I sent out a business related email to her without personalizing it. I think there was just a lot of miscommunication or something. This went on for years and is actually still happening, although I haven't seen her in quite a while. I ended up getting hurt enough times that I just feel comfortably distant from her, but I don't begrudge her for not feeling a connection with me.

    People are just really complicated, but for some reason I find attempts at initiating INFP friendships the most difficult, even though my mother and sister are Fi-doms and I get along quite well with both. My sister was my best friend throughout all of childhood and adolescence and still now. I'm even used to INTP distance which is sometimes famous within families, so I should be well trained for this.
    This sounds like the kind of stuff people project onto me. I get accused of snubbing and being offended when I'm just not even aware. I didn't say hi to you because I literally did not see you. I didn't suddenly get quiet cuz you pissed me off - my own thoughts just became more interesting than the blah blah blahs around me. People start tip-toeing around stuff that has not even registered on my radar.

    Jung noted that the Fi-dom's indifference to external things amounts to a devaluing of them (when they are not touching on any ideal, good or bad, and thus failing to arouse any feeling), and this can be read as some negative feeling toward the people/objects specifically. What it is really is is a devaluing of outer things in relation to the inner world, at that moment. It is not a specific devaluing of any person/object then. In short - we're just not in the mood. But maturity & better social awareness can help us to not give into such moods (see below the quotes).

    In the presence of something that might carry one away or arouse enthusiasm, this type observes a benevolent neutrality, tempered with an occasional trace of superiority and criticism that soon takes the wind out of the sails of a sensitive object.

    Expression of feeling, therefore, remains niggardly and, when once aware of it at all, the object has a permanent sense of his undervaluation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    Although I'm not the "take offense to everything" type, I have rightfully earned labels such as "cold, difficult, too independent." Its been said that getting anything out of me is like pulling teeth, but worse. It sounds like your co-worker is really sensitive and needs an astronomy class to teach her the world doesn't revolve around her.
    I agree with this up until the last sentence.... what helped me with awareness was realizing I was affecting others negatively. When I got feedback that people found me cold, snobby, and extremely hard to get to know, then I realized they actually valued my opinion, my company and my friendship. I had assumed I was so inconsequential that no one was noting my behavior at all, and so I was free to lapse into la la land whenever I wanted. I had assumed that people reacted to me as they did because they did not like me or want to be friends, not because they felt rejected by me. When I saw that I mattered to people, then I made efforts to be more consistent, more approachable, more expressive of positive feeling. It's still a struggle as I am so absent-minded by nature & am easily drained by a lot of overt expression. I find it hard to find the words which suit me & not sticking with stock phrases that don't feel genuine, etc.

    In a sense, making the person realize they matter & that their behavior has impact may be more effective than giving some "you're not a special snowflake & the world doesn't revolve around you" speech. The average Fi-dom is not bursting at the seems with self-confidence, after all. Inferior Te tends to say, "Nobody likes you. Everybody hates you. Go eat worms".
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #33
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    OK INFP's. Strictly hypothetically, how should a guy ask you out?
    Chimera of Filth

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    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  4. #34
    Riva
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    Making friends/bonding with Fi doms by inducing isn't easy because they probably don't form friendships/bond due to mutual benefits, interests etc. However you could try hanging out often with them often. (Or make them hang out with you.) This way when they spend considerable time with you they might feel the need to bond with you on your merits.

  5. #35
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    OK, here's a more specific question: how do I flirt and get steady communication with an INFP without being smothering? As an ENFP, that's already something I'm bad at. I know that INFP's like their personal space.
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Making friends/bonding with Fi doms by inducing isn't easy because they probably don't form friendships/bond due to mutual benefits, interests etc. However you could try hanging out often with them often. (Or make them hang out with you.) This way when they spend considerable time with you they might feel the need to bond with you on your merits.
    Good point. Physical proximity is probably the best way to speed up the process of getting to know an INFP. If you're interacting with an INFP on a long-distance basis and emailing them, it's easy for the INFP to lump all non-essential email together as "spam" and ignore it, including your email to them. Much better to be a roommate of an INFP and dog them to go out with you for a pizza and beer. The INFP may refuse on the first couple occasions, but sooner or later their willpower will waver...

  7. #37
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    Although I'm not the "take offense to everything" type, I have rightfully earned labels such as "cold, difficult, too independent." Its been said that getting anything out of me is like pulling teeth, but worse. It sounds like your co-worker is really sensitive and needs an astronomy class to teach her the world doesn't revolve around her.
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    ...I agree with this up until the last sentence.... what helped me with awareness was realizing I was affecting others negatively. When I got feedback that people found me cold, snobby, and extremely hard to get to know, then I realized they actually valued my opinion, my company and my friendship. I had assumed I was so inconsequential that no one was noting my behavior at all, and so I was free to lapse into la la land whenever I wanted. I had assumed that people reacted to me as they did because they did not like me or want to be friends, not because they felt rejected by me. When I saw that I mattered to people, then I made efforts to be more consistent, more approachable, more expressive of positive feeling. It's still a struggle as I am so absent-minded by nature & am easily drained by a lot of overt expression. I find it hard to find the words which suit me & not sticking with stock phrases that don't feel genuine, etc.

    In a sense, making the person realize they matter & that their behavior has impact may be more effective than giving some "you're not a special snowflake & the world doesn't revolve around you" speech. The average Fi-dom is not bursting at the seems with self-confidence, after all. Inferior Te tends to say, "Nobody likes you. Everybody hates you. Go eat worms".
    fwiw, I don't think that particular friend is self-centered, so Thursday's last sentence doesn't resonate with me either, although I appreciate it as an attempt to make me feel less rejected. My impression is more that this particular individual has a complex intertwining of sensitivity and apathy. I just have a hard time figuring out which is which and I do feel personally devalued, but I don't think everyone has to value me just because I value them. People have an honest personal right to not want to connect to me. I've always been anxious that she felt we were in competition because musicians have an awful culture of behaving that way. I don't want to compete at all. I just happened to form an internal ideal of being good friends with her, possibly even sharing recitals with students, etc., and my internal concept just never mapped to reality, so I was disappointed.

    The irony is that I also can be too distant and when younger was specifically accused of it, but would compensate by smiling at people. I'm too close and distant at the same time.

    Edit: Socially I can relate to much of what you describe. I've been a bit more open as I get older and take greater risks just because I've experienced enough genuine rejection and survived that I've been pushed past the point of something.

    Edit: I really hope I can figure this out because it applies to a few people, all of whom I value highly, but their behavior does feel like it contains some authentic rejection of me. I suppose it is possible that if they value me the rejection is pre-emptive. I just wonder if it could be just spaciness when it resonates so strongly of rejection. In both recent cases I had significant things in common, so I wasn't just a random person. With one we are the only two around our same age who are professionals on our specific instrument and we both value using music in therapeutic contexts. All of our goals are the same and aspects of personality as well, so it seems like it's meaningful. In the second we are both creative and unusual and had what I thought were possibly the best music conversations I've ever had, but now that INFP completely ignores me on FB. They like all the other band members new profile pics from our performance, but not mine. Both have hurt my feelings quite deeply, and it's just my rational mind that keeps taking risks, but it never changes in the first, longer case. Oh well.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  8. #38
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    They like all the other band members new profile pics from our performance, but not mine. Both have hurt my feelings quite deeply, and it's just my rational mind that keeps taking risks, but it never changes in the first, longer case. Oh well.
    Your Average Facebook Post Only Reaches 12% Of Your Friends

    In light of this, you should reevaluate whether she intended to 'snub' you - it's more probable that she did not see you change your profile picture at all.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #39
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Your Average Facebook Post Only Reaches 12% Of Your Friends

    In light of this, you should reevaluate whether she intended to 'snub' you - it's more probable that she did not see you change your profile picture at all.
    That's a good point, and I do try not to give too much focus on FB because it is different from irl.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  10. #40

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    I tend to keep myself very guarded. I make acquaintances of people quite often, but for me to really open up and start baring my soul, there has to be some deeper connection or they have to share something I'm really interested in. I also find it difficult to want to form bonds with people who share little in common with me to begin with. I simply don't have time for small talk about trivial day to day bullshit. If someone wants to discuss music, particularly the stuff I'm into, history, eastern religions and philosophy, alternate history and time travel, mystery science theater 3000, or any other number of things I care about, then I start to let my guard down and will find myself wanting to spend a lot more time around that person
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