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  1. #21
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susah View Post
    This really is perhaps the most central issue in my approach to people. Especially people I really like (or at least a certain category of them) I get completely convinced that any attempt of mine to get to know them will be an annoyance. That they will respond and be nice because they're not assholes, but that really they just despise me. I realise this is actually a bit horrible of me; especially if they are nice people they might very well take a genuine interest in me, not out of mere duty. And what perhaps makes it more horrible is that (and this is most likely one of the reasons of the above) is that this is quite often my response to people approaching me. The only two people I've genuinely despised were people who had crushes on me. One of them was actually horrible, but I suspect the other one really didn't deserve it. And of course this is not my usual response - usually when someone shows they like you you like them back for it. Aargh... I hate this so much...
    Why did you despise the people who had crushes on you? Were they intrusive?

    I have had some people with crushes on me that stressed me out because they got kind of demanding and entitled. They were nice, but they always wanted specific explanations why I didn't want to date them so they could change it. There was a forceful quality. I could see despising that. Im not sure that I despised anyone for that and would try to continue being positive towards them, but did want to just avoid them. That forcefulness and invasion made me not want them as part of my life. Not desiring an intimate connection should not have to be explained and proven in a court of law - or something that feels similar. It's okay even if it is not rational. People are too complex and there are enough of us that it's okay to be choosy for reasons that only make sense to the individual.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #22
    Junior Member Susah's Avatar
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    I'm really not sure why I despised them so much. I wouldn't say they were actually intrusive. At least not the first guy. I didn't know him and he mostly tended to hang around me in a sort of 'stalkerish' mode which made it obvious that he liked me, but he never actually tried to talk to me (he might have tried if I had not ignored him so thoroughly. I am fantastically good at ignoring people). Now that I have some distance towards it I feel really sorry for him - he really didn't deserve it. Not that he knew about it, but still...

    But perhaps it is because there is something intrinsically 'demanding' about it, even though it is not something active or intentional. That they force a relationship onto me that I'm not in control of and don't want.

    I actually find it very puzzling. I generally like people and it's very rare for me to have negative feelings towards people - even those who perhaps deserve it. And these two are by far the only ones I've really despised.

  3. #23
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susah View Post
    This actually fascinates me a lot. When you get to know someone new and realise that it's a whole new experience. Of course every person is unique, but that does not necessarily mean that your 'attitude' towards everyone is. I mean, it isn't. With acquaintances I don't get this, but with people I get 'involved' with (that sounds odd but I suspect you know what I mean: I don't very often develop a genuine interest about people) I tend to ponder the dynamics of my feelings towards them.
    I don't know. For me it comes from learning that I could get a lot out of someone without having the 'connection'. It happened a few years back when I lived in a situation where I was forced to be around people that I wouldn't ordinarily classify as the sort I really would invest in and make an effort to get to know. I had previously been writing people off as, "nice enough, but not my sort of person". Then I realised that in looking for someone to bond perfectly with, I was missing out on all sorts of interesting folk. I had to learn that it wasn't like I had a limited amount of 'friendship' I could hand out, so there was no point in just saving it up for the 'right people'.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #24
    Junior Member Susah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I don't know. For me it comes from learning that I could get a lot out of someone without having the 'connection'. It happened a few years back when I lived in a situation where I was forced to be around people that I wouldn't ordinarily classify as the sort I really would invest in and make an effort to get to know. I had previously been writing people off as, "nice enough, but not my sort of person". Then I realised that in looking for someone to bond perfectly with, I was missing out on all sorts of interesting folk. I had to learn that it wasn't like I had a limited amount of 'friendship' I could hand out, so there was no point in just saving it up for the 'right people'.
    I'm not sure I understand quite how you relate that to what I said, but I do find it interesting - I've had almost the opposite experience. I actively tried to spend time with people I wouldn't normally, thinking that it would be interesting and surely we would get along anyway. And of course they were nice people and one or two I do like, but it really didn't work out very well at all from my point of view. As I can't really keep up very many friendships at once, finding myself spending time with people who I didn't really connect with and making no progress didn't prove very healthy...

    But as to 'saving it for the right people' I wouldn't say I do that. At least as far as it implies an active choice. I actually find it quite annoying how few people I actually get interested by, as I'm convinced pretty much everyone is, and it really 'limits my chances' of making new friends and so on...

  5. #25
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Here's another question for INFP's especially E4s

    How do you communicate that you are rejecting friendship? How is that distinguished from your introversion, shyness, and/or just irregular communication style?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #26
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    I'm terrible at making friends and even worse at keeping them given my tendency to drop off the planet.

    I think the best friends I've had are the people I can be both light and heavy with. People I can joke around with and talk about heavier stuff and joke around with some more. People who enjoy the light-hearted and the "deep and meaningful" equally, and reciprocate. People I don't feel trapped into relating with in only one way or the other, and can be all sides of myself around. The best friends I've had are also people I've been forced into close proximity with. School or work or housemates. People I haven't had to seek out. If I do have to seek them out and they don't seek me out the friendship dwindles and dies. Not that I don't still consider them a good friend -- they just become irrelevant to my day-to-day life. A happy memory.

    I think all of my closest friendships also involved other friends. Hanging out one-on-one is great and necessary, but time spent with mutual friends is also great and possibly necessary imo. It changes things up and is less demanding, particularly if you're both introverts. If you have mutual friends with an INFP I'd recommend including them in the friendship. I also think changing the venue could be a good way to show you're interested in an actual friendship rather than a friendly-acquaintanceship. Invite them out to do something you think they'd be interested in. Maybe with a mutual friend. Or invite them to a movie/boardgame/whatever night. INFPs enjoy spontaneity. That said, INFPs can differ quite widely. It's possible he'd enjoy none of these things.

    The key, as has been said here already, is low-key thick-skinned persistence. Just because he doesn't want to do x on y day doesn't mean he doesn't want to be friends. He may just not be in the mood that day, but on another day would love to. That said, it's probably hard to tell the difference between an INFP who doesn't want to be friends and one who does. Which I guess is where the forced-proximity works. It's much easier to befriend someone you see regularly than it is to befriend someone you have to make special efforts to see.

    Probably not particularly helpful. If I think of anything else I'll add it.

  7. #27
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Here's another question for INFP's especially E4s

    How do you communicate that you are rejecting friendship? How is that distinguished from your introversion, shyness, and/or just irregular communication style?
    I really just don't do this much. I tend to give people a chance because I don't categorize them immediately. I'm sort indifferent by default.
    Someone has to be outright offensive to me, in which case I'll likely give rather obvious signs of disgust. Since these people are often the most thick-skinned & oblivious, then it tends to roll off their back. In short, they don't care if I don't like them.

    I think with age, I am more likely to give a more obviously positive response to invitations from people I feel some affinity with and to go out of my way to be around them (I'll put my "moods" aside). The thing is, it may not be obvious outside of the context of "me", as in, if they don't know me that well, then they wouldn't know this is my version of enthusiasm & being sociable.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #28
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I think I had a friendship fail, but oh well. I feel like that often, but tend to not be offended, so I'm just available when and if it changes. I just always try to recalibrate to other people and whatever their wants and needs are.

    I'm socially a little depressed right now for various reasons, but probably don't have much objective reason to be. It's probably just a temperament thing.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #29
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Here's another question for INFP's especially E4s

    How do you communicate that you are rejecting friendship? How is that distinguished from your introversion, shyness, and/or just irregular communication style?
    By not bringing it up. If its important to me that I get to know you in that way, I'll bring up things like places to go and things I like so that if you react in an interested way to those things, I'll ask you. If I only bring up impersonal things, its because I see things as impersonal between us.
    I N V I C T U S

  10. #30
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    By not bringing it up. If its important to me that I get to know you in that way, I'll bring up things like places to go and things I like so that if you react in an interested way to those things, I'll ask you. If I only bring up impersonal things, its because I see things as impersonal between us.
    I had a long-term attempt at a friendship with a fellow INFP musicians, and it took us like six months to get together to have coffee, which was okay, but then she would sometimes snub me at work meetings. I was quiet, depressed, and withdrawn at one and she initiated some interaction. I think she actually got offended a couple of times when I sent out a business related email to her without personalizing it. I think there was just a lot of miscommunication or something. This went on for years and is actually still happening, although I haven't seen her in quite a while. I ended up getting hurt enough times that I just feel comfortably distant from her, but I don't begrudge her for not feeling a connection with me.

    People are just really complicated, but for some reason I find attempts at initiating INFP friendships the most difficult, even though my mother and sister are Fi-doms and I get along quite well with both. My sister was my best friend throughout all of childhood and adolescence and still now. I'm even used to INTP distance which is sometimes famous within families, so I should be well trained for this.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

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