[MBTI General] How to spot an ENFX?

[Qlip]

I know 3 ESFPs? It can be hard to ferret them out. Mostly because they are very open to me discussing very ENFP ideas. Even if they don't quite get what I'm talking about, they're amused by the Ne and like the personal connection that they are interested and will smile and nod and join in. They tend to be a little bit more energetic partiers than ENFPs. The ones I do know have 'quiet interests' but really do live for the weekend, for burning man, for biking with friends, the club on Saturday. While ENFPs love to do that stuff, too, that's not our primary focus. We tend to me more enthusiasts with a party side and ESFPs tend to be partiers with and enthusiast side.

The ESFPs I've met are highly aesthetic, but don't seem to connect with the grittier side of life. Tend to love beauty in the form of bright colors, natural shapes, breeziness. One friend of mine didn't want to plecostomus in her fish tank to clean up algae because it is ugly, most ENFPs I know would find that ugliness endearing.

I think you'll find the Se and Ne difference shows the more time you spend with them, their almost super-human (to Ne) sensitivity to smells, tastes, and sounds and colors directly funneled to their judgement function Fi. That is truly their world.

 

[Lady_X]

ENFJ's will take you to [insert religious denomination here] on Sunday

ESFJ's will take you downtown for tacos and a museum

ENFP's are big socialites

ESFP's are hipsters

I'm sorry I think this lil list here sucks.

I do not think its in anyway an enfj thing to take you to church and any of those types would take you downtown for tacos haha and enfps are not socialites. That would be more enfj or esfj and I do not think esfps are hipsters like probably ever.

 

[Dancing_Queen]

Yes! I love fashion too, and am often complimented on my fashion sense. Literally the ONLY tv show I watch is Project Runway (I watch it for the fashion, not the drama, haha). I never get that description of us either. I do tend to have little stains or wrinkles or maybe a missing stone in a necklace or worn out shoes, something which my ESFJ friends wouldn't dream of. I love getting funky with my look though.

You can count me in with the clumsy crowd too. It's bad

Project Runaway, YES!!!

I watch it religiously, my other favorite TV shows were America's Next Top Model and Gossip Girl, I endured the fourth season only for the fashion.

My toe fingers know the pain of belonging to an ENFP

 

[Dancing_Queen]

ESFPs are socialites, ENFPs are hipsters/aliens

Exactly.

I used to think that because I'm a bookworm and love gadgets that I'd be a geek, but I took a test yesterday and got hipster

I would never call myself that because of the Tumblr syndrome, but the description is spot on.

 

[Lady_X]

While Im all for defending the sfps as they are getting that typical sensor bias bullshit in this thread again, I have to disagree with your view of Ne.

Ne simply isnt that calculating...that sounds more like overly active Fe or so-instinct, tbh. Ne is also about having fun but in a different way, it is about seeking out the potential in people and having fun with word games and enriching (every)one's mind...an exchange of ideas really. Dinner is just a way to come together and connect with others in that way, tbh

Yeah wtf. Ne looks for what it can get out if something?
What? No it doesn't.

It can also be about the pleasure of the company... All the different interesting personalities and points of view. We have a deep live for conversation about real things... Things that ignite our passion or humor or give us puzzles to get lost in and solve...

We can very much just greatly enjoy people and all their lil quirks. It's not about getting something from them.

 

[Dancing_Queen]

This is not what I have extrapolated from my studies.

Se would host a dinner party primarily for fostering a good atmosphere for company, for example.

Ne would host a dinner party primarily to foster healthy social connections.

Ne looks for "what they can get" out of something. Se looks for the general pleasure of experience.

It's pretty well laid out; I even remember reading this on Socionics forums...


Thinking back, I find it funny [MENTION=10984]DJ Arendee[/MENTION] typed the traditional 'gangster' type as ENFP. I see what he meant now (presuming his mind hasn't changed).

Dude, you gotta get out more and actually experience these personality types instead of reading about them on forums. I'd also like to remind you that Socionics are not the same as MBTI, if you compare their descriptions of type it's pretty clear.

And you got it totally wrong about ENFPs. We are mostly concerned with fun too, but for us it has to involve real and genuine personal connections, unlike ESFPs who are in general looking for partying and lighter activity buddies. We ENFPs detest people interaction coming from convenience or ulterior motives.

 

[Dancing_Queen]

While Im all for defending the sfps as they are getting that typical sensor bias bullshit in this thread again, I have to disagree with your view of Ne.

Ne simply isnt that calculating...that sounds more like overly active Fe or so-instinct, tbh. Ne is also about having fun but in a different way, it is about seeking out the potential in people and having fun with word games and enriching (every)one's mind...an exchange of ideas really. Dinner is just a way to come together and connect with others in that way, tbh

Great point about Fe. ESFJs and ENFJs are indeed more likely to arrange situations so they get close to people who can help them in some way. I mean this in the best way possible, they're very skilled at it

 

[Dancing_Queen]

Yeah wtf. Ne looks for what it can get out if something?
What? No it doesn't.

It can also be about the pleasure of the company... All the different interesting personalities and points of view. We have a deep live for conversation about real things... Things that ignite our passion or humor or give us puzzles to get lost in and solve...

We can very much just greatly enjoy people and all their lil quirks. It's not about getting something from them.

I've no idea where he got that from. Really, I've seen ENFPs being accused of being flaky and emotionally manipulative, but having ulterior motives to wanna spend time with people? Never.

 

[five sounds]

My husband talks about that part of me. He says that he can understand why people might see my social adjusting as fake or suspicious, but he knows that it comes from a genuine desire to connect with and experience all different kinds of people. We might modify our behavior, but our aim is true. In my experience, people figure this out after a little time knowing me.

 

[HongDou]

I'm wondering if the OP means how to find general patterns of ENFP and ENFJ that differentiate from ESFP and ESFJ patterns rather than telling apart the two EFPs and telling apart the two EFJs.

 

[Glycerine]

That's so curious an observation about ENFJs being more fierce about their political beliefs. The ENFJ I know is not fierce about anything for fear of being considered callous. But she could easily be the exception to the norm.

To be honest, I think that distinction depends on the person and if you are close to them. I talk a lot but people constantly complain that I am too "closed off" and don't say "what's on my mind" because according to them, "I worry too much about what others think". IME, ESFJs tend to follow more of the rules "by the book" while ENFJs seem to follow their own set of rules or bend existing goals to their advantage. ENFJs tend to have a more direct communication style ( and "in charge" interaction style like that of EXTJs but generally with more diplomacy while ESFJs tend to have a more informative communication style (and "get things going" interaction style) similar to that of EXFPs. Another potential way to tell is how detailed are their plans. ESFJs tend to have their ideas/plans mapped down to every last detail ACCURATELY while ENFJs tend have more of a somewhat detailed outline and kind of wing out for whatever the situation calls for (and generally speaking, if ENFJs try to be detailed as ESFJs, there is usually some hilarious mistake waiting to occur).

 

[Stansmith]

I wouldn't even organize a dinner party in the first place tbh

 

[Amargith]

I used to organize a Yule party for my friends (my version of Christmas). And I did it coz I love the ambiance of Christmas and wanted to create my own version (...inferior Si? ). I am not one to stand in the kitchen all day but for that party, I didn't mind at all; it allowed me to tinker each year and improve upon the party from last year with new recipes, a new theme, decorating the house, getting everyone together.

That party wasnt so much about the ideas and conversation as I saw them plenty anyways for those things; that party was about giving them an idyllic place I created especially for them to forget all their worries, have a merry time and enjoy some original new things as well as old classics at Christmas. No bickering over who does the dishes, everyone feeling at home enough to grab whatever they wanted, each person finding their personal favorites to relish and plenty of entertainment and good spirit for them to enjoy a night away from their stressful lives.

In short, I wanted it to feel like you were inside a Christmas movie. My final production of that party before I left for Norway was the closest I got. It was the first party that I was...completely content with, after like 2 or 3 previous attempts the years before

It was the first time that most of the recipes, timing of making them and the timing of me being able to be with my guests without too much stress worked out. I remember looking over to a laughing group of friends getting comfortable, eating gingerbread cookies and drinking eggnog at some point and thinking....this is picture-perfect

 

[Dancing_Queen]

My husband talks about that part of me. He says that he can understand why people might see my social adjusting as fake or suspicious, but he knows that it comes from a genuine desire to connect with and experience all different kinds of people. We might modify our behavior, but our aim is true. In my experience, people figure this out after a little time knowing me.

I was talking to someone about that on another thread. Because I lack the willingness to modify my behavior around people I had troubles typing myself, every single description of ENFPs I read made a point to expand on our flexibility around others, which I don't have, neither does the only confirmed ENFP I personally know.

 

[Dancing_Queen]

I'm sorry I think this lil list here sucks.

I do not think its in anyway an enfj thing to take you to church and any of those types would take you downtown for tacos haha and enfps are not socialites. That would be more enfj or esfj and I do not think esfps are hipsters like probably ever.

Every list he posted sucks. In fact every single MBTI based list sucks, because actual people make such a big number of exceptions to the rule you end up realizing this generalizations don't work.

 

[WALMART]

[MENTION=5418]Lady X[/MENTION]

Perhaps the ENFJ thing was unfair. I was accentuating something I feel Si/Fe is very good for - culture, history, language, things like that. Si is concerned with the mythological constructs of man from a 'scientific' perspective, almost, always observing its subjective influence in the environment an object is placed in. Ni is far more spiritual in its pursuits. While Si can look at each Judaic faith with equal scrutiny, Ni is going to look at which is 'more right' and 'more wrong', probably inclined off of personal preference.

Si never gets this rap. It gets 'Si is rulez', which is so totally wrong it's absurd, and only serves to exponentiates my belief that close to no one really understands anything about the things they discuss here on the forums. It's as if they claim sugar, spice, and everything nice, while sending anything their isn't their idealized self off to the island of misfit toys.

Se is so hipster, btw. It does what it wants almost always. Ne is about as close to the stylized view of Fe as it gets.

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]

Well, let's think about the two poles of Se and Ne. Se is blindly charging forth, brute force prying open every nook of possibility. Ne is what, then? It is sizing a situation and manipulating the variables to forcibly produce an outcome. There's no real way around it...

[MENTION=18820]Dancing_Queen[/MENTION]

I will let Jung evidence the situation for me:

"The irrational type balances this contemptuous judgment with an equally poor impression of the rational; for he sees him as something only half alive, whose only aim in life consists in fastening the fetters of reason upon everything living, and wringing his own neck with criticisms. Naturally, these are gross extremes; but they occur."

It's as if you're in this for the... what? It certainly isn't the knowledge of experience from those that have gone before, and it probably isn't about expanding the scope of the current affair of things.

 

[Amargith]

[MENTION=15886]superunknown[/MENTION]

Lol, no hon, Ne is just another way of charging forward - granted, it is done in a more circular way perhaps, but many an Ne-user has been charged with stream-of-consciousness spontaneity and not thinking things through. It's just on another level. We play with the potential the situation has to offer, Se-users play with what is available to them in the moment, right here. That's the difference. Forcibly introducing an outcome is the realm of Ni + another function, tbh. They distill the situation to what they envision it to become and then move pieces on the chess board to get there. We use what we come across idea-wise to filter into our internal world, be it Fi or Ti.

It's like accidentally stumbling upon a bush of berries and envisioning how you'd use em: some to eat for the rest of the week, some to use for jam and some to use for decoration on the cake you were already making anyway. You see their potential and you work with what you've got to achieve something that appeals to you - for instance, it could very well be that all berries are too blemished to really use for decoration or even to just eat, and they are only suitable for jam making - and hey, if all else fails, you could use them to try and colour that fabric you've been wanting to experiment with.

Mmm..I meant the berry-thing as a metaphor, but for Se this is probably how it truly works. So it should show how similar they truly work. It is just that we tend to do this less with tangible things and more so with actual abstract ideas. For instance, I sort friendships and connections in exactly the same way I sort those berries, and I instantly size up the potential they hold as they develop further. I've seen enough patterns to have a pretty good idea of how they will turn out and how to approach this particular relationship to maximize its potential. And yes, in that way, we can be calculated. But it is an opportunistic calculation, in much the same way that Se is. I just happen to prefer fiddling with intangible patterns to concrete circumstances.

I think that perhaps you're seeing N through your Ni-lens, as it is the type of intuition most relatable to you. I often have the same issues with T. I sort of get what Ti is supposed to be about, but I find it hard to grasp tangibly, so I project Te characteristics on it sometimes as that is easier to grasp for me.

 

[WALMART]

[MENTION=15886]superunknown[/MENTION]

Lol, no hon, Ne is just another way of charging forward - granted, it is done in a more circular way perhaps, but many an Ne-user has been charged with stream-of-consciousness spontaneity and not thinking things through. It's just on another level. We play with the potential the situation has to offer, Se-users play with what is available to them in the moment, right here. That's the difference. Forcibly introducing an outcome is the realm of Ni + another function, tbh. They distill the situation to what they envision it to become and then move pieces on the chess board to get there. We use what we come across idea-wise to filter into our internal world, be it Fi or Ti.

It's like accidentally stumbling upon a bush of berries and envisioning how you'd use em: some to eat for the rest of the week, some to use for jam and some to use for decoration on the cake you were already making anyway. You see their potential and you work with what you've got to achieve something that appeals to you - for instance, it could very well be that all berries are too blemished to really use for decoration or even to just eat, and they are only suitable for jam making - and hey, if all else fails, you could use them to try and colour that fabric you've been wanting to experiment with.

Mmm..I meant the berry-thing as a metaphor, but for Se this is probably how it truly works. So it should show how similar they truly work. It is just that we tend to do this less with tangible things and more so with actual abstract ideas. For instance, I sort friendships and connections in exactly the same way I sort those berries, and I instantly size up the potential they hold as they develop further. I've seen enough patterns to have a pretty good idea of how they will turn out and how to approach this particular relationship to maximize its potential. And yes, in that way, we can be calculated. But it is an opportunistic calculation, in much the same way that Se is. I just happen to prefer fiddling with intangible patterns to concrete circumstances.

I think that perhaps you're seeing N through your Ni-lens, as it is the type of intuition most relatable to you. I often have the same issues with T. I sort of get what Ti is supposed to be about, but I find it hard to grasp tangibly, so I project Te characteristics on it sometimes as that is easier to grasp for me.

But friendships are not abstract. The connections you feel with people are not abstract, either. Either way, this pattern formation is indicative of a strong rational function, producing reason from experience. Pattern recognition is far, far removed from what Ne offers to the psyche.

For example, I was waiting for a bus once downtown and had my bike rested up against a tree. A guy comes by, puts his foot on the pedal and starts to pretend like he's going to pedal away, screaming "LOOK, I GOT A FREE BIKE!." This is Ne. Se understands the object, understands its owner as an object, and projects the understanding onto the situation: it isn't going to fuck with someone else's bicycle unwarranted. Ne is like... absolute reckless abandon from anything beyond the ego. It isn't 'pattern recognition', or pattern anything. I'm tired of Ne and "pattern" being in the same sentence.

Ne is moving forth and exploiting every conceivable perception the mind conjures with very little introspection, just as Se is remaining stationary and completely ignoring the depth of unconscious, intuiting experience. Take this quote:

"Apparently this type is more prone to favour women than men; in which case, however, the intuitive activity reveals itself not so much in the professional as in the social sphere. Such women understand the art of utilizing every social opportunity; they establish right social connections; they seek out lovers with possibilities only to abandon everything again for the sake of a new possibility."

The entire psychological profile is littered with concepts highly parallel to this quote. Extraverted intuition is truly existing in the external realm at the whims of the psyche, hence: extraverted intuition.

 

[Lady_X]

[MENTION=5418]Lady X[/MENTION]

Perhaps the ENFJ thing was unfair. I was accentuating something I feel Si/Fe is very good for - culture, history, language, things like that. Si is concerned with the mythological constructs of man from a 'scientific' perspective, almost, always observing its subjective influence in the environment an object is placed in. Ni is far more spiritual in its pursuits. While Si can look at each Judaic faith with equal scrutiny, Ni is going to look at which is 'more right' and 'more wrong', probably inclined off of personal preference.

Si never gets this rap. It gets 'Si is rulez', which is so totally wrong it's absurd, and only serves to exponentiates my belief that close to no one really understands anything about the things they discuss here on the forums. It's as if they claim sugar, spice, and everything nice, while sending anything their isn't their idealized self off to the island of misfit toys.

Se is so hipster, btw. It does what it wants almost always. Ne is about as close to the stylized view of Fe as it gets.

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]

Well, let's think about the two poles of Se and Ne. Se is blindly charging forth, brute force prying open every nook of possibility. Ne is what, then? It is sizing a situation and manipulating the variables to forcibly produce an outcome. There's no real way around it...

[MENTION=18820]Dancing_Queen[/MENTION]

I will let Jung evidence the situation for me:

"The irrational type balances this contemptuous judgment with an equally poor impression of the rational; for he sees him as something only half alive, whose only aim in life consists in fastening the fetters of reason upon everything living, and wringing his own neck with criticisms. Naturally, these are gross extremes; but they occur."

It's as if you're in this for the... what? It certainly isn't the knowledge of experience from those that have gone before, and it probably isn't about expanding the scope of the current affair of things.

no man just no...

you could if you wanted (but it would be sorta pointless) explain all the reasons a particular type might go about doing the things you mentioned because every single type can and has and would all have their different reasons for doing so...but it doesn't make it a valuable argument.

se is so not hipster...not by itself as a function...like at all.
"hipsters" which btw have i said how much i detest that word? come in all sorts of flavors of mbti

and probably most of the ones i know of are nt's

maybe your definition differs from mine....esfp like niki minaj ?? is that what you consider a hipster? because i do not...i consider that mainstream bubble gum fashion....off the rack looks every lil teenage girl mimics...that's not hipster.

an intp might use their ti ne to construct their oh so different ironic look that might be defined as hipster

the point is...it's all a silly stupid argument and i disagree with it.

 

[wolfy]

Unicorn avatars. (Sorry if that has been pointed out)