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  1. #61
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    The primary crux of my argument is that there are a near infinite number of ENFP's and INFJ's on this forum, and it seems anyone coming to look for legitimate information gets lost in a sea of misinformation.

    Go to www.the16types.com. There are actual ESFP's! People that actually understand what an ESFP is!

    I love this site infinitely more than that one, however, I would like to see some of their knowledge wash over onto our community. This is all.
    that's why i'm bothering to argue against what you've put forth tho...it paints such an inaccurate picture.

    i'm not saying that an esfp can't be a hipster or than an enfp can't be all trendy mainstream...but it's wrong to state that that would be any sort of accurate identifier.

    or that an enfj would be all sunday church goer and an esfj would be all downtown culture.
    that's just so wrong mr superunknown.
    people coming here to learn about types are not going to get anything valuable from that.

    i do not claim to be any sort of expert...and you really shouldn't either because i assure you your lenses are cloudy.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    that's why i'm bothering to argue against what you've put forth tho...it paints such an inaccurate picture.

    i'm not saying that an esfp can't be a hipster or than an enfp can't be all trendy mainstream...but it's wrong to state that that would be any sort of accurate identifier.

    or that an enfj would be all sunday church goer and an esfj would be all downtown culture.
    that's just so wrong mr superunknown.
    people coming here to learn about types are not going to get anything valuable from that.

    i do not claim to be any sort of expert...and you really shouldn't either because i assure you your lenses are cloudy.
    That's a given, I already admitted that I have intent by posting what I do: to cease the spread of misinformation and provide a better atmosphere for learning. The simple act of having intent clouds one's perception.

    Even reading over the first page of posts, how badly everyone jerks off over ENFx's while ESFx's are left out in the cold... it's a real shit situation this site's got going on.

  3. #63
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    That's a given, I already admitted that I have intent by posting what I do: to cease the spread of misinformation and provide a better atmosphere for learning. The simple act of having intent clouds one's perception.

    Even reading over the first page of posts, how badly everyone jerks off over ENFx's while ESFx's are left out in the cold... it's a real shit situation this site's got going on.
    Well it's one that can't be helped unfortunately given that people so often talk about what they know and there's just too little s's here but it won't be helped by your inaccurate representation either.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    Well it's one that can't be helped unfortunately given that people so often talk about what they know and there's just too little s's here but it won't be helped by your inaccurate representation either.
    I bet you half the people that posted in this thread are closer to sensing than intuiting. And that's the point.

    I guess I have to wonder: what do people use typology for? To simply identify with? Or to grow?

  5. #65
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I bet you half the people that posted in this thread are closer to sensing than intuiting. And that's the point.

    I guess I have to wonder: what do people use typology for? To simply identify with? Or to grow?
    so you think the majority of people on this forum are actually just mistyped and spreading misinformation?

    and...it seems to me that most people here do both...you have to identify the issue before addressing it.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    so you think the majority of people on this forum are actually just mistyped and spreading misinformation?

    and...it seems to me that most people here do both...you have to identify the issue before addressing it.
    Yes, I do. My first two days with typology I tested ENTP (when stoned) then INTJ the next day (sober). ENTP's sounded cooler, so I ran with it. Descriptions of sensing sounded so foreign to me; they were qualities I valued with absolute little importance. After a while, my type was challenged by a member (who I hung out with in person), and afterwards I had so much difficulty reconciling my thoughts as being intuition-dom against what I perceived sensing to be. But the more I studied it, the more I actually understood it... the more I could see how weirdly wrong the sources I was going over previously were. It is easy to facilely write sensing off as a facile function, especially for anyone with any sort of intellectual ego. But I promise you, it has far more depth than I presently see anyone on this forum give it.

    Again, Socionics forums seem to be far more advanced in their understanding of the variances, and subsequently, more members identify with those types. Perhaps what I do here is a fruitless endeavor for myself, but it passes the time and stimulates my mind while hopefully propagating some true introspection among whoever happens to come across what I write.

  7. #67
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Yes, I do. My first two days with typology I tested ENTP (when stoned) then INTJ the next day (sober). ENTP's sounded cooler, so I ran with it. Descriptions of sensing sounded so foreign to me; they were qualities I valued with absolute little importance. After a while, my type was challenged by a member (who I hung out with in person), and afterwards I had so much difficulty reconciling my thoughts as being intuition-dom against what I perceived sensing to be. But the more I studied it, the more I actually understood it... the more I could see how weirdly wrong the sources I was going over previously were. It is easy to facilely write sensing off as a facile function, especially for anyone with any sort of intellectual ego. But I promise you, it has far more depth than I presently see anyone on this forum give it.

    Again, Socionics forums seem to be far more advanced in their understanding of the variances, and subsequently, more members identify with those types. Perhaps what I do here is a fruitless endeavor for myself, but it passes the time and stimulates my mind while hopefully propagating some true introspection among whoever happens to come across what I write.
    sure there is value is giving a deeper understanding about functions others aren't as intimately familiar with and it's true that many ne types don't fully grasp se but it's also true that as a se type you likely don't fully grasp ne.

    as it would seem by your above descriptions.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #68
    Senior Member Dancing_Queen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    @Lady X

    Perhaps the ENFJ thing was unfair. I was accentuating something I feel Si/Fe is very good for - culture, history, language, things like that. Si is concerned with the mythological constructs of man from a 'scientific' perspective, almost, always observing its subjective influence in the environment an object is placed in. Ni is far more spiritual in its pursuits. While Si can look at each Judaic faith with equal scrutiny, Ni is going to look at which is 'more right' and 'more wrong', probably inclined off of personal preference.

    Si never gets this rap. It gets 'Si is rulez', which is so totally wrong it's absurd, and only serves to exponentiates my belief that close to no one really understands anything about the things they discuss here on the forums. It's as if they claim sugar, spice, and everything nice, while sending anything their isn't their idealized self off to the island of misfit toys.

    Se is so hipster, btw. It does what it wants almost always. Ne is about as close to the stylized view of Fe as it gets.

    @Amargith

    Well, let's think about the two poles of Se and Ne. Se is blindly charging forth, brute force prying open every nook of possibility. Ne is what, then? It is sizing a situation and manipulating the variables to forcibly produce an outcome. There's no real way around it...

    @Dancing_Queen

    I will let Jung evidence the situation for me:

    "The irrational type balances this contemptuous judgment with an equally poor impression of the rational; for he sees him as something only half alive, whose only aim in life consists in fastening the fetters of reason upon everything living, and wringing his own neck with criticisms. Naturally, these are gross extremes; but they occur."

    It's as if you're in this for the... what? It certainly isn't the knowledge of experience from those that have gone before, and it probably isn't about expanding the scope of the current affair of things.
    Evidence of what? For one, you would have to think Jung himself knew all about human psyche and therefore was always irrevocably right, which I'm sure he never claimed to be.

    I'm into things because they challenge and entertain me, and as for being about those who came before me, it's totally irrelevant to the issue. I don't have to agree with them just because a lot of people do, in fact we would never have any kind of progress in science, psychology or any other field without new visions and disagreements.

    You clearly have no idea of what real ENFPs are like, neither do you understand Ne. If you did, you wouldn't have been so far from the mark in your observations. Either that or the people you've been basing this on aren't actual ENFPs, but mistyped something else.

    It's natural for Thinkers to try and put things into categories, but most human beings can't be labeled like that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #69
    Senior Member Dancing_Queen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Yes, I do. My first two days with typology I tested ENTP (when stoned) then INTJ the next day (sober). ENTP's sounded cooler, so I ran with it. Descriptions of sensing sounded so foreign to me; they were qualities I valued with absolute little importance. After a while, my type was challenged by a member (who I hung out with in person), and afterwards I had so much difficulty reconciling my thoughts as being intuition-dom against what I perceived sensing to be. But the more I studied it, the more I actually understood it... the more I could see how weirdly wrong the sources I was going over previously were. It is easy to facilely write sensing off as a facile function, especially for anyone with any sort of intellectual ego. But I promise you, it has far more depth than I presently see anyone on this forum give it.

    Again, Socionics forums seem to be far more advanced in their understanding of the variances, and subsequently, more members identify with those types. Perhaps what I do here is a fruitless endeavor for myself, but it passes the time and stimulates my mind while hopefully propagating some true introspection among whoever happens to come across what I write.
    I 100% agree. I also think the actual creators understand Jung's theory more than the MBTI ones ever did.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    sure there is value is giving a deeper understanding about functions others aren't as intimately familiar with and it's true that many ne types don't fully grasp se but it's also true that as a se type you likely don't fully grasp ne.

    as it would seem by your above descriptions.
    I think the fault of any type not understanding another lies in not pursuing the concepts with real interest, not some inherent "you don't think like me" barrier.

    I've been typed things from "monster INTP" to "transcendent of functions". I've done a lot of research into the subject, and I'm pretty sure I understand how Ne works. Non-biased, it is my favorite function, responsible for everything from America's establishment to this present debate. My brother is my best friend, and I'm almost positive he is ENFP with scathing levels of Te. If Socionics is anything to go by, my ideal partner is IEE.

    Just because I criticize something doesn't mean I don't value it, or understand it, or appreciate all its capacities. I am simply critiquing its existence, something @Kalach actually informed me I would be unable to do regarding Ne.

    But if you feel this rift too wide, simply because I identify ISTP and you identify ENFP... so be it.

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