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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    no man just no...

    you could if you wanted (but it would be sorta pointless) explain all the reasons a particular type might go about doing the things you mentioned because every single type can and has and would all have their different reasons for doing so...but it doesn't make it a valuable argument.

    se is so not hipster...not by itself as a function...like at all.
    "hipsters" which btw have i said how much i detest that word? come in all sorts of flavors of mbti

    and probably most of the ones i know of are nt's

    maybe your definition differs from mine....esfp like niki minaj ?? is that what you consider a hipster? because i do not...i consider that mainstream bubble gum fashion....off the rack looks every lil teenage girl mimics...that's not hipster.

    an intp might use their ti ne to construct their oh so different ironic look that might be defined as hipster

    the point is...it's all a silly stupid argument and i disagree with it.
    It's fine if you think it's silly. You are free to disengage at any time you see fit, as I likely will not, provided substance is being offered up.

    I don't have any particular affinity for the term hipster either, simply because it is hip to use, but I can think of no better 'one-stop-shop' in terminology. Hipsters just are. They do the things they like because they like them, they go the places they go because they want to. This is how extraverted irrationals are in general, but extraverted sensors and introverted intuitors are the 'epitome' of self-loving. I think Ne users are prone to falling in and out of fads, getting swept up in the current events of happenstance.

    Note: this does not apply to you. I am addressing the theory.

  2. #42
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    It's fine if you think it's silly. You are free to disengage at any time you see fit, as I likely will not, provided substance is being offered up.

    I don't have any particular affinity for the term hipster either, simply because it is hip to use, but I can think of no better 'one-stop-shop' in terminology. Hipsters just are. They do the things they like because they like them, they go the places they go because they want to. This is how extraverted irrationals are in general, but extraverted sensors and introverted intuitors are the 'epitome' of self-loving. I think Ne users are prone to falling in and out of fads, getting swept up in the current events of happenstance.

    Note: this does not apply to you. I am addressing the theory.
    hipsters are anti mainstream. that's their schtick. they are ironic. they make fun of the whole notion that society dictates what is cool.

    that isn't what se does.

    "they do things they like because they like them and go to places they like" ??? whaaa?? that's not hipster. that's like everyone.

    and ne users get swept up in fads?? omg no they don't...certainly not more than any other....

    and fi... fi does what it wants...not because anyone deems it cool...fi is completely self possessed.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #43
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    But friendships are not abstract. The connections you feel with people are not abstract, either. Either way, this pattern formation is indicative of a strong rational function, producing reason from experience. Pattern recognition is far, far removed from what Ne offers to the psyche.

    For example, I was waiting for a bus once downtown and had my bike rested up against a tree. A guy comes by, puts his foot on the pedal and starts to pretend like he's going to pedal away, screaming "LOOK, I GOT A FREE BIKE!." This is Ne. Se understands the object, understands its owner as an object, and projects the understanding onto the situation: it isn't going to fuck with someone else's bicycle unwarranted. Ne is like... absolute reckless abandon from anything beyond the ego. It isn't 'pattern recognition', or pattern anything. I'm tired of Ne and "pattern" being in the same sentence.

    Ne is moving forth and exploiting every conceivable perception the mind conjures with very little introspection, just as Se is remaining stationary and completely ignoring the depth of unconscious, intuiting experience. Take this quote:

    "Apparently this type is more prone to favour women than men; in which case, however, the intuitive activity reveals itself not so much in the professional as in the social sphere. Such women understand the art of utilizing every social opportunity; they establish right social connections; they seek out lovers with possibilities only to abandon everything again for the sake of a new possibility."

    The entire psychological profile is littered with concepts highly parallel to this quote. Extraverted intuition is truly existing in the external realm at the whims of the psyche, hence: extraverted intuition.
    Ehh....ime the Ne person goes what if I take this bike. The Se person just does it

    Pretend versus do. The 'what if' is typical for us. We might follow up or we might not, but we will go there to thinking about it, for sure. And I think you have a very biased and dark view of what you feel Ne is capable of. It isn't neutral, sorry. Your preference is showing, I guess

    Friendships to me are very abstract. Or rather, I play with the abstract part of it. The people are real, as are the connections. But the potential it holds, the underlying nuances that play a part and the emotional undercurrents, impressions, patterns and 'what ifs' make it exciting to tinker with it.

    And pattern recognition is what Ne does. It notices, perceives how one event, situation, circumstance is similar to another, in what way they associate, correlate and work in a similar way. It is in that that Ne find its pot of gold, its understanding...its way to flesh out the opportunities to bank on, actually.

    Also, you're talking to an Ne-dom. I'm sorry,but I do not recognise in the slightest what you believe Ne to be. And I live it.

    Anycase, I doubt we'll find be able to get on the same page so Imma call it quits.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    hipsters are anti mainstream. that's their schtick. they are ironic. they make fun of the whole notion that society dictates what is cool.

    that isn't what se does.

    "they do things they like because they like them and go to places they like" ??? whaaa?? that's not hipster. that's like everyone.

    and ne users get swept up in fads?? omg no they don't...certainly not more than any other....

    and fi... fi does what it wants...not because anyone deems it cool...fi is completely self possessed.
    Hmmm.

    "Hipsters are a subculture of men and women typically in their 20's and 30's that value independent thinking, counter-culture, progressive politics, an appreciation of art and indie-rock, creativity, intelligence, and witty banter."

    I don't think they explicitly run against the mainstream because that's the thing to do. Being ironic about it sounds like a poser.

    Also, I don't think of Ne and Fi/Te going inherently hand-in-hand. That is some abstraction generated by whoever got a hold of the theory later.

  5. #45
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    that's an extremely vague definition. they might as well just be talking about people who live in major metropolitan areas.

    and exchange indie rock for electronic music then you're talking about most of my friends...which in fact probably are hipsters...if you go by the definition of dressing "hip"

    and why is it poserish to mock society? i mean maybe it's not your type of funny maybe it's fucking stupid but i don't think it makes one a poser.

    i don't think of ne going hand in hand with fi/te either... was just saying you can't say ne will prescribe to current trends if that ne is backed up by fi that says i do what i want damn it! and "i" think all the current trends are uber lame.

    i may just think the term hipster is too stupid
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #46
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    to expand on that... since you're from tx you might get that dallas has a sort of sub culture of club scene sort of pretentious fashionably hip people....that some might call hipsters.

    and austin has it's music scene peeps that are anti pretentious...and probably fit that definition to a tee

    but...imo a hipster actually is someone pretending to be what those people actually are...and are in fact poseurish.
    like rebelling against something because they think it's cool to do so...and in their aim to be anti conformist are really just being a different sort.

    which is super lame.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #47
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    hipsters are anti mainstream. that's their schtick. they are ironic. they make fun of the whole notion that society dictates what is cool.

    that isn't what se does.

    "they do things they like because they like them and go to places they like" ??? whaaa?? that's not hipster. that's like everyone.

    and ne users get swept up in fads?? omg no they don't...certainly not more than any other....

    and fi... fi does what it wants...not because anyone deems it cool...fi is completely self possessed.
    Well, not hipster in the sense that's it's commonly used. Hipster isn't the word for it, but I do see what he's saying (because I see it happening in myself and another person I've known). I think that both ENFPs and ESFPs will "self possessed", but the style in which an ENFP will do it more unstable (that's what fads usually are... unstable). ENFPs are not necessarily following social trends.

    For example, if I am analyzing my emotions/thoughts or whatever, and idea will come to me and I will go with that until another when comes to me and I am like "Oh, wait ...maybe this is why I am feeling like a complete loser ...and then I will use "Fi" (if that's really what I am using) to rationalize my experience with my thoughts/feelings even more until another concept shows up a few days later.

    No one has ever told me I used Se ...so I cannot really understand how they'd try to perceive their thoughts/feelings/whatever, but what I've noticed with at least one Se user is that he'll hang onto one explanation regardless of what another person might throw at him (which is sort of unlike me ...I'll at least consider it and play around with the idea for a while, even if doesn't fit with my experience). For him, it is what it is. He's very "...this is what's going on around me ...this is how I experience it ...and this is the explanation that I've decided to use to understand it."

    ...And if I've typed a good friends of mine correctly, she is also faddy when it comes to her uniqueness/authenticity. She is NOT reading up on spiritual books and doing what they tell her to do, but a lot of factors and ideas come into play when she is expressing her ideas/beliefs/thoughts from time to time, but no matter what, she is using her Fi.

    It's possible that this relates to fashions/trends/things like that. If I've typed my ENFP friends correctly, then the idea could also apply to them since they love "dressing" up. They are "faddy;" One ENFP that I know will always look like a hobo cause she doesn't think clothing in a practical sense, but she can see the "being herself/following her ideals" potential in A LOT of different styles. The other ENFP loves DW and other things and she sporadically changes things up while still preserving her love for the shows/cultural concepts her fashion stems from. The one potential ISPF I know would never really do that. She doesn't think about the connection/patterns between her clothing and other things that are important to her. ...I am not putting this clearly enough, I know. I think fashion is a trickier subject when it comes to cognitive functions, though.

  8. #48
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    To be honest, I think that distinction depends on the person and if you are close to them. I talk a lot but people constantly complain that I am too "closed off" and don't say "what's on my mind" because according to them, "I worry too much about what others think". IME, ESFJs tend to follow more of the rules "by the book" while ENFJs seem to follow their own set of rules or bend existing goals to their advantage. ENFJs tend to have a more direct communication style ( and "in charge" interaction style like that of EXTJs but generally with more diplomacy while ESFJs tend to have a more informative communication style (and "get things going" interaction style) similar to that of EXFPs. Another potential way to tell is how detailed are their plans. ESFJs tend to have their ideas/plans mapped down to every last detail ACCURATELY while ENFJs tend have more of a somewhat detailed outline and kind of wing out for whatever the situation calls for (and generally speaking, if ENFJs try to be detailed as ESFJs, there is usually some hilarious mistake waiting to occur).
    Hmm, good observations.

  9. #49
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    Well, not hipster in the sense that's it's commonly used. Hipster isn't the word for it, but I do see what he's saying (because I see it happening in myself and another person I've known). I think that both ENFPs and ESFPs will "self possessed", but the style in which an ENFP will do it more unstable (that's what fads usually are... unstable). ENFPs are not necessarily following social trends.

    For example, if I am analyzing my emotions/thoughts or whatever, and idea will come to me and I will go with that until another when comes to me and I am like "Oh, wait ...maybe this is why I am feeling like a complete loser ...and then I will use "Fi" (if that's really what I am using) to rationalize my experience with my thoughts/feelings even more until another concept shows up a few days later.

    No one has ever told me I used Se ...so I cannot really understand how they'd try to perceive their thoughts/feelings/whatever, but what I've noticed with at least one Se user is that he'll hang onto one explanation regardless of what another person might throw at him (which is sort of unlike me ...I'll at least consider it and play around with the idea for a while, even if doesn't fit with my experience). For him, it is what it is. He's very "...this is what's going on around me ...this is how I experience it ...and this is the explanation that I've decided to use to understand it."

    ...And if I've typed a good friends of mine correctly, she is also faddy when it comes to her uniqueness/authenticity. She is NOT reading up on spiritual books and doing what they tell her to do, but a lot of factors and ideas come into play when she is expressing her ideas/beliefs/thoughts from time to time, but no matter what, she is using her Fi.

    It's possible that this relates to fashions/trends/things like that. If I've typed my ENFP friends correctly, then the idea could also apply to them since they love "dressing" up. They are "faddy;" One ENFP that I know will always look like a hobo cause she doesn't think clothing in a practical sense, but she can see the "being herself/following her ideals" potential in A LOT of different styles. The other ENFP loves DW and other things and she sporadically changes things up while still preserving her love for the shows/cultural concepts her fashion stems from. The one potential ISPF I know would never really do that. She doesn't think about the connection/patterns between her clothing and other things that are important to her. ...I am not putting this clearly enough, I know. I think fashion is a trickier subject when it comes to cognitive functions, though.
    What in the world are y'all arguing about?! lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    to expand on that... since you're from tx you might get that dallas has a sort of sub culture of club scene sort of pretentious fashionably hip people....that some might call hipsters.

    and austin has it's music scene peeps that are anti pretentious...and probably fit that definition to a tee

    but...imo a hipster actually is someone pretending to be what those people actually are...and are in fact poseurish.
    like rebelling against something because they think it's cool to do so...and in their aim to be anti conformist are really just being a different sort.

    which is super lame.
    you callin' me lame, lady x? jk. but i sometimes get called a hipster.

  10. #50
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    What in the world are y'all arguing about?! lol
    In all honesty, I feel that I shouldn't have said anything (I was having a pseudo anxiety attack when I clicked the submit button), but I really felt strongly about what @superunknown was saying. At first, it did not make ANY sense at all... and then I thought about it more and it clicked, I guess. I just wanted to throw in my perspective because I truly feel like it does make sense if it was thought about in a different way (another reason why I didn't want to post it because I usually assume that people know more than me ...so if I say something like I just did ...then it might be a useless thing for me to do). ...meep. I am sorry if I did anything that I shouldn't have done. I didn't mean to.

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