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  1. #31
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    That's so curious an observation about ENFJs being more fierce about their political beliefs. The ENFJ I know is not fierce about anything for fear of being considered callous. But she could easily be the exception to the norm.
    To be honest, I think that distinction depends on the person and if you are close to them. I talk a lot but people constantly complain that I am too "closed off" and don't say "what's on my mind" because according to them, "I worry too much about what others think". IME, ESFJs tend to follow more of the rules "by the book" while ENFJs seem to follow their own set of rules or bend existing goals to their advantage. ENFJs tend to have a more direct communication style ( and "in charge" interaction style like that of EXTJs but generally with more diplomacy while ESFJs tend to have a more informative communication style (and "get things going" interaction style) similar to that of EXFPs. Another potential way to tell is how detailed are their plans. ESFJs tend to have their ideas/plans mapped down to every last detail ACCURATELY while ENFJs tend have more of a somewhat detailed outline and kind of wing out for whatever the situation calls for (and generally speaking, if ENFJs try to be detailed as ESFJs, there is usually some hilarious mistake waiting to occur).

  2. #32
    Stansmith
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    I wouldn't even organize a dinner party in the first place tbh

  3. #33
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I used to organize a Yule party for my friends (my version of Christmas). And I did it coz I love the ambiance of Christmas and wanted to create my own version (...inferior Si? ). I am not one to stand in the kitchen all day but for that party, I didn't mind at all; it allowed me to tinker each year and improve upon the party from last year with new recipes, a new theme, decorating the house, getting everyone together.

    That party wasnt so much about the ideas and conversation as I saw them plenty anyways for those things; that party was about giving them an idyllic place I created especially for them to forget all their worries, have a merry time and enjoy some original new things as well as old classics at Christmas. No bickering over who does the dishes, everyone feeling at home enough to grab whatever they wanted, each person finding their personal favorites to relish and plenty of entertainment and good spirit for them to enjoy a night away from their stressful lives.

    In short, I wanted it to feel like you were inside a Christmas movie. My final production of that party before I left for Norway was the closest I got. It was the first party that I was...completely content with, after like 2 or 3 previous attempts the years before

    It was the first time that most of the recipes, timing of making them and the timing of me being able to be with my guests without too much stress worked out. I remember looking over to a laughing group of friends getting comfortable, eating gingerbread cookies and drinking eggnog at some point and thinking....this is picture-perfect
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Dancing_Queen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    My husband talks about that part of me. He says that he can understand why people might see my social adjusting as fake or suspicious, but he knows that it comes from a genuine desire to connect with and experience all different kinds of people. We might modify our behavior, but our aim is true. In my experience, people figure this out after a little time knowing me.
    I was talking to someone about that on another thread. Because I lack the willingness to modify my behavior around people I had troubles typing myself, every single description of ENFPs I read made a point to expand on our flexibility around others, which I don't have, neither does the only confirmed ENFP I personally know.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #35
    Senior Member Dancing_Queen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    I'm sorry I think this lil list here sucks.

    I do not think its in anyway an enfj thing to take you to church and any of those types would take you downtown for tacos haha and enfps are not socialites. That would be more enfj or esfj and I do not think esfps are hipsters like probably ever.
    Every list he posted sucks. In fact every single MBTI based list sucks, because actual people make such a big number of exceptions to the rule you end up realizing this generalizations don't work.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #36
    WALMART
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    @Lady X

    Perhaps the ENFJ thing was unfair. I was accentuating something I feel Si/Fe is very good for - culture, history, language, things like that. Si is concerned with the mythological constructs of man from a 'scientific' perspective, almost, always observing its subjective influence in the environment an object is placed in. Ni is far more spiritual in its pursuits. While Si can look at each Judaic faith with equal scrutiny, Ni is going to look at which is 'more right' and 'more wrong', probably inclined off of personal preference.

    Si never gets this rap. It gets 'Si is rulez', which is so totally wrong it's absurd, and only serves to exponentiates my belief that close to no one really understands anything about the things they discuss here on the forums. It's as if they claim sugar, spice, and everything nice, while sending anything their isn't their idealized self off to the island of misfit toys.

    Se is so hipster, btw. It does what it wants almost always. Ne is about as close to the stylized view of Fe as it gets.

    @Amargith

    Well, let's think about the two poles of Se and Ne. Se is blindly charging forth, brute force prying open every nook of possibility. Ne is what, then? It is sizing a situation and manipulating the variables to forcibly produce an outcome. There's no real way around it...

    @Dancing_Queen

    I will let Jung evidence the situation for me:

    "The irrational type balances this contemptuous judgment with an equally poor impression of the rational; for he sees him as something only half alive, whose only aim in life consists in fastening the fetters of reason upon everything living, and wringing his own neck with criticisms. Naturally, these are gross extremes; but they occur."

    It's as if you're in this for the... what? It certainly isn't the knowledge of experience from those that have gone before, and it probably isn't about expanding the scope of the current affair of things.

  7. #37
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    @superunknown

    Lol, no hon, Ne is just another way of charging forward - granted, it is done in a more circular way perhaps, but many an Ne-user has been charged with stream-of-consciousness spontaneity and not thinking things through. It's just on another level. We play with the potential the situation has to offer, Se-users play with what is available to them in the moment, right here. That's the difference. Forcibly introducing an outcome is the realm of Ni + another function, tbh. They distill the situation to what they envision it to become and then move pieces on the chess board to get there. We use what we come across idea-wise to filter into our internal world, be it Fi or Ti.

    It's like accidentally stumbling upon a bush of berries and envisioning how you'd use em: some to eat for the rest of the week, some to use for jam and some to use for decoration on the cake you were already making anyway. You see their potential and you work with what you've got to achieve something that appeals to you - for instance, it could very well be that all berries are too blemished to really use for decoration or even to just eat, and they are only suitable for jam making - and hey, if all else fails, you could use them to try and colour that fabric you've been wanting to experiment with.

    Mmm..I meant the berry-thing as a metaphor, but for Se this is probably how it truly works. So it should show how similar they truly work. It is just that we tend to do this less with tangible things and more so with actual abstract ideas. For instance, I sort friendships and connections in exactly the same way I sort those berries, and I instantly size up the potential they hold as they develop further. I've seen enough patterns to have a pretty good idea of how they will turn out and how to approach this particular relationship to maximize its potential. And yes, in that way, we can be calculated. But it is an opportunistic calculation, in much the same way that Se is. I just happen to prefer fiddling with intangible patterns to concrete circumstances.

    I think that perhaps you're seeing N through your Ni-lens, as it is the type of intuition most relatable to you. I often have the same issues with T. I sort of get what Ti is supposed to be about, but I find it hard to grasp tangibly, so I project Te characteristics on it sometimes as that is easier to grasp for me.
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  8. #38
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    @superunknown

    Lol, no hon, Ne is just another way of charging forward - granted, it is done in a more circular way perhaps, but many an Ne-user has been charged with stream-of-consciousness spontaneity and not thinking things through. It's just on another level. We play with the potential the situation has to offer, Se-users play with what is available to them in the moment, right here. That's the difference. Forcibly introducing an outcome is the realm of Ni + another function, tbh. They distill the situation to what they envision it to become and then move pieces on the chess board to get there. We use what we come across idea-wise to filter into our internal world, be it Fi or Ti.

    It's like accidentally stumbling upon a bush of berries and envisioning how you'd use em: some to eat for the rest of the week, some to use for jam and some to use for decoration on the cake you were already making anyway. You see their potential and you work with what you've got to achieve something that appeals to you - for instance, it could very well be that all berries are too blemished to really use for decoration or even to just eat, and they are only suitable for jam making - and hey, if all else fails, you could use them to try and colour that fabric you've been wanting to experiment with.

    Mmm..I meant the berry-thing as a metaphor, but for Se this is probably how it truly works. So it should show how similar they truly work. It is just that we tend to do this less with tangible things and more so with actual abstract ideas. For instance, I sort friendships and connections in exactly the same way I sort those berries, and I instantly size up the potential they hold as they develop further. I've seen enough patterns to have a pretty good idea of how they will turn out and how to approach this particular relationship to maximize its potential. And yes, in that way, we can be calculated. But it is an opportunistic calculation, in much the same way that Se is. I just happen to prefer fiddling with intangible patterns to concrete circumstances.

    I think that perhaps you're seeing N through your Ni-lens, as it is the type of intuition most relatable to you. I often have the same issues with T. I sort of get what Ti is supposed to be about, but I find it hard to grasp tangibly, so I project Te characteristics on it sometimes as that is easier to grasp for me.
    But friendships are not abstract. The connections you feel with people are not abstract, either. Either way, this pattern formation is indicative of a strong rational function, producing reason from experience. Pattern recognition is far, far removed from what Ne offers to the psyche.

    For example, I was waiting for a bus once downtown and had my bike rested up against a tree. A guy comes by, puts his foot on the pedal and starts to pretend like he's going to pedal away, screaming "LOOK, I GOT A FREE BIKE!." This is Ne. Se understands the object, understands its owner as an object, and projects the understanding onto the situation: it isn't going to fuck with someone else's bicycle unwarranted. Ne is like... absolute reckless abandon from anything beyond the ego. It isn't 'pattern recognition', or pattern anything. I'm tired of Ne and "pattern" being in the same sentence.

    Ne is moving forth and exploiting every conceivable perception the mind conjures with very little introspection, just as Se is remaining stationary and completely ignoring the depth of unconscious, intuiting experience. Take this quote:

    "Apparently this type is more prone to favour women than men; in which case, however, the intuitive activity reveals itself not so much in the professional as in the social sphere. Such women understand the art of utilizing every social opportunity; they establish right social connections; they seek out lovers with possibilities only to abandon everything again for the sake of a new possibility."

    The entire psychological profile is littered with concepts highly parallel to this quote. Extraverted intuition is truly existing in the external realm at the whims of the psyche, hence: extraverted intuition.

  9. #39
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    @Lady X

    Perhaps the ENFJ thing was unfair. I was accentuating something I feel Si/Fe is very good for - culture, history, language, things like that. Si is concerned with the mythological constructs of man from a 'scientific' perspective, almost, always observing its subjective influence in the environment an object is placed in. Ni is far more spiritual in its pursuits. While Si can look at each Judaic faith with equal scrutiny, Ni is going to look at which is 'more right' and 'more wrong', probably inclined off of personal preference.

    Si never gets this rap. It gets 'Si is rulez', which is so totally wrong it's absurd, and only serves to exponentiates my belief that close to no one really understands anything about the things they discuss here on the forums. It's as if they claim sugar, spice, and everything nice, while sending anything their isn't their idealized self off to the island of misfit toys.

    Se is so hipster, btw. It does what it wants almost always. Ne is about as close to the stylized view of Fe as it gets.

    @Amargith

    Well, let's think about the two poles of Se and Ne. Se is blindly charging forth, brute force prying open every nook of possibility. Ne is what, then? It is sizing a situation and manipulating the variables to forcibly produce an outcome. There's no real way around it...

    @Dancing_Queen

    I will let Jung evidence the situation for me:

    "The irrational type balances this contemptuous judgment with an equally poor impression of the rational; for he sees him as something only half alive, whose only aim in life consists in fastening the fetters of reason upon everything living, and wringing his own neck with criticisms. Naturally, these are gross extremes; but they occur."

    It's as if you're in this for the... what? It certainly isn't the knowledge of experience from those that have gone before, and it probably isn't about expanding the scope of the current affair of things.

    no man just no...

    you could if you wanted (but it would be sorta pointless) explain all the reasons a particular type might go about doing the things you mentioned because every single type can and has and would all have their different reasons for doing so...but it doesn't make it a valuable argument.

    se is so not hipster...not by itself as a function...like at all.
    "hipsters" which btw have i said how much i detest that word? come in all sorts of flavors of mbti

    and probably most of the ones i know of are nt's

    maybe your definition differs from mine....esfp like niki minaj ?? is that what you consider a hipster? because i do not...i consider that mainstream bubble gum fashion....off the rack looks every lil teenage girl mimics...that's not hipster.

    an intp might use their ti ne to construct their oh so different ironic look that might be defined as hipster

    the point is...it's all a silly stupid argument and i disagree with it.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #40

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