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  1. #41
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by istpunk View Post
    I think it's a problem because society expects males to act typically as a Thinker while females as a Feeler. So people assume you're gay or effeminate when you're just feely. I have no problem with NFs but SF males I do. They tend to see me as someone they're better than or have to prove more over for some reason. Yes ESFJs and ISFJs males got some beef with me. I do nothing and suddenly they act aggressive and macho and I'm looking at them weird.

    I know an INFP male, people think he's dumb or like a kid. I treat him as I treat everyone straight up. Since I naturally make people get in trouble, I always dare him to get into trouble which he usually does and he enjoys it.

    I think you feely boys would do better with those thinker girls. especially those mind control types like estjs or estps.
    well if i had to pick a thinking team member, i would 120% always pick the INTJ...why settle for the estj/estp when you can have THE MASTERMIND INTJ????

  2. #42
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    Trust me, I'm more or less in the same boat.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    This here by calls to meeting the sad fact that most INFP males and myself....are most of the time...stuck in the friendzone...


    any advice, comments, help?
    Change your type?

    Ah, j/k. NF males can be bit too... what is the right word I'm looking for... wimpy?

    Don't try to be their friend, be their date.

  4. #44
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    i do have issues with confronting the reality. part of it is that im so old relative to these issues and behind in experience that im not sure i really know *how* to have a relationship...and therefore i just cultivate friendships with otherwise attractive girls.... did i really just...maybe answer my own question??
    I can't offer much/any advice, but this particular comment is one I relate to. I think even if I knew what I "should" do in various circumstances, I'd find the behavior unacceptable in comparison to my own version of how things "should" be. I don't really know how to be anything other than friends, so making the transition is awkward, and trying to jump past the transition to something I've very limited experience with is even more awkward (I can usually clearly envision how I think things should/will be, but the transition to getting here is the missing link part).

    I think part of my own problem is that I do believe that if a relationship is going to have long term potential, then being good friends first is/should be a good thing as it will be an indicator of what the relationship will be if/when the romantic spark fades from it. I've asked and received advice before, but none of it has ever felt like the right advice for me in a way that is authentic to myself, so I've consigned myself to trying to just learn from my mistakes and merge those lessons with still trying to do thing in a way thats comfortable to me. Will that ever work? who knows, but for now I'll keep trying til I either succeed or reach a new suffering threshold to make me re-evaluate things. I do think its a good idea to try to keep learning what I can from listening and talking to others, but I consider it important to make the distinction that I'm looking for knowledge and insight into the how and why that is the foundation of the advice others give so that I can try to find a way to adept it to my values (to me, telling me what to do is not usually helpful, its the reasons behind it that give it value).
    Last edited by TenebrousReflection; 07-13-2008 at 04:09 PM. Reason: minor changes

  5. #45
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I think the friends first approach works with some people, but I still do really think it can sort of neuter you with others. Developing a romantic relationship and a friendship can be done simultaneously. Sometimes people mentally categorize their relationships and once you're sort of in a certain file, it can be hard to get into a different file. Presenting yourself as a friend when you are really wanting to be considered more seems safe, but it's only safe like stuffing your money under your mattress.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #46
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I have a close INFP friend; we have chemistry; I'd never date him (even though I was crushing on him for the longest time for a while).

    Why? My xxTJness does not mess well with his extreme INFP type--he's not assertive enough to keep on par with my personality. It exhausts me as a female (I prefer more gender stereotypes where the guy generally has a bit of the lead with regards to the establishment/pace of the relationship) and I don't honestly like being the continually assertive, decision making person. Even as a xxTJ. It's exhausting. I need the closure and he isn't assertive enough to give closure even for little things like deciding where to go have lunch together (I always decide). Those little things represent big things.

    As a sidenote, his lack of what I'd consider a "serious" commitment to his Christian faith is an issue, but I don't know how much of that is type related, except that he angsts Fi about how terrible a condition the world is in and doesn't do much to pull himself out of the hole and figure out a way to make the world a better place and enjoy himself a little.

    But yeah, the continual open-ended never-commiting to a simple decision thing drives me up the wall. He is very masculine in his INFPness but I need a guy who can make some simple decisions and follow through.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  7. #47
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I have a close INFP friend; we have chemistry; I'd never date him (even though I was crushing on him for the longest time for a while).

    Why? My xxTJness does not mess well with his extreme INFP type--he's not assertive enough to keep on par with my personality. It exhausts me as a female (I prefer more gender stereotypes where the guy generally has a bit of the lead with regards to the establishment/pace of the relationship) and I don't honestly like being the continually assertive, decision making person. Even as a xxTJ. It's exhausting. I need the closure and he isn't assertive enough to give closure even for little things like deciding where to go have lunch together (I always decide). Those little things represent big things.
    so that pretty much means you can only be with an ENTJ

    recently, ive realized through some discussion that im probably more of an ENFP...and im generally assertive enough in choosing where to eat, but i get that comment of not being "capable"...sometimes...it bugs me.

    people get that im "intelligent" in some other way. like even if we all get our tests back and i get a terrible grade, some of them will still think of me as smarter then all of them lol....its nice, and i wish they knew MBTI. simply put, my NF isnt always going to beat XT in academics.

  8. #48
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    I now recognize that there is a root problem to having friend zone problems that isnt even related to "fixing it".

    its broken down into two basic parts:

    1. Focusing too much on details and not enough on big picture...dont let your attraction to them blind you to obvious signs of non compatability EARLY on
    1.a BIG PICTURE MAKES IT SIMPLE:

    the reality is that much of 'friendzone' guys talk about how they didnt want to make their feelings known early on because they "werent sure she liked me yet". This can be avoided by not focusing on little nitpicking like : 1-3 seconds eye contact means ____, while her flipping her hair towards mecca means _____ and _____ .... while instead focus on:

    who cares how friendly she SEEMS, does she give a shit about YOUR life? does she return questions with more than you asked for? does she ever ask YOU questions about YOUR life?
    who cares how friendly she SEEMS about walking with you from ____ to ____ when youre there. does she wait up for you if were to 'hang back' for 30 seconds talking to _____????
    the ONLY body language give away that i take seriously is the "puppy eyes" they are the ONLY RELIABLE body language give away, the rest can always be on accident. nobody does puppy eyes on acciden! Rolling Eyes

    when you focus on these more big picture questions than body language crap, you realize how ****ing stupid is to ever ask "does she like me?" if you dont know, then the answer is "no" 90% of the time.

    think of all the friendzoners (including me) that could of avoided this crap if i had just asked myself those BIG PICTURE questions.

    1.b DONT MAKE EXCUSES FOR THEM, THAT SHOULD OTHERWISE BE MADE BY THEM.
    this is for when people read those big picture questions and act like "im still not sure!" really? you arent sure of the difference between if she is only being friendly and civil with returning questions in conversation or if she actaully gives a shit about the specifics of your life???

    this is so simple i cant believe i was this dumb, lets take the original big picture questions and dissect how you shouldnt make excuses for them, where they should make their own:

    -"the only reason she doesnt ask as probing of questions as i do is because she is shy/playing hard to get/just got out of a relationship"
    again, dont make excuses FOR HER. if she doesnt make them, then you are to assume that she in fact doesnt give a shit about your life more than a friend level.

    -"she doesnt wait up for me when im not walking step for step with her out of class because shes busy, she really needed to make that phone call instead i guess"
    DONT MAKE THAT EXCUSE FOR HER!

    2. Not valuing yourself enough.

    How great can this person be, if they dont want to be with YOU, the greatest person in YOUR OWN LIFE???? it seems so simple, but really, i think the attraction just blinds us to seeing this oh so simple one.

    do you really want to be with someone who is so dense as to not like you? (i realise this sounds narcissistic, im assuming the people reading this probably dont suffer from it )


    so to review: the attraction blinds us to the following:
    1. its actaully really ****ing simple to see if she 'likes' you, as long as you dont over analyze it.
    2. When she does something that to outsider say, she doesnt like you, DONT MAKE EXCUSES FOR HER, that SHE should make for herself.
    3. why the hell would you want to be in a relationship where you have to be constantly "proving" yourself??? seriously wtf was i thinking???

  9. #49
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    This here by calls to meeting the sad fact that most INFP males and myself....are most of the time...stuck in the friendzone...


    any advice, comments, help?

    EDIT: this happens almost always with SJs but even when i meet an NF, im still just relegated to being Leelas Fry (futurama)...

    EDIT2: if we could possibly hear some success stories here? ( i actually didnt create this thread with one particular girl in mind).or tips on how to not ever end up there in the first place? (usaully i get, be more direct, indicate more sexual interest earlier....but i dont want to be an ESTP!!!)

    i dunno how angry girls will get, but butt slapping works for me. lol

    one girl told me she gets a tingly feeling down there when I do it! LOLLLLL

    i think i have the timing and the mischevious look down for the butt slapping paradigm shift from friend to " flirtatious potential" lol

    but seriously, don't listen to me...

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    i dunno how angry girls will get, but butt slapping works for me. lol

    one girl told me she gets a tingly feeling down there when I do it! LOLLLLL

    i think i have the timing and the mischevious look down for the butt slapping paradigm shift from friend to " flirtatious potential" lol

    but seriously, don't listen to me...
    No, don't listen to him. Some girl may kick your behind. And it could get you labeled as a pervert. Dating chances will probably go down from there.

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