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  1. #21
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I don't have a lot of dating experience either, but I'm guessing that when you meet a girl, if she seems like she might be someone you might consider a relationship with you should ask her out. Do not wait around until you know her better (and inadvertently wind up in the friend zone), plan on getting to know her via dating. Asking someone out on a date is not a marriage proposal, so if it turns out she's not what you're looking for, you can break it off.

    This will also keep you from wasting time on passively pursuing girls with whom you have no chance. When you passively pursue a girl waiting for her to make a move or show a sign, you can neuter yourself in her mind, if that makes sense. You want to avoid that.

    I don't have a lot of experience with INFJ guys, but I've known a couple of INFP ladies men, so I know it can be done. You just need technique, I think.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #22
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Right, well I am not an expert because I have not been in a lot of relationships (YES, that is true, although I am an ENFP :-P). In addition, I come from a different country with a different culture AND I have a different type. I'm also not a guy. So consider that when reading, please.

    However, I am married and have some experience, so here are my two cents for the possibilities. You have to do a lot of reflection to see if anything applies or if I am just saying crap.

    1. Maybe the women aren't ready. Are you in different stages of life? Have they just broken up with people? Are they mature enough? Are you "looking" in the right places? Or do they have totally different interests and views on life? (By the way, you shouldn't LOOK at all).

    2. Maybe you aren't ready. You think you are, but you really aren't. Perhaps you need to mature a bit more. (I don't mean that meanly - we all need to grow and mature). Perhaps you are trying too hard - that turns off folks immediately (S sees it on some level; N feels/intuits it on some level). Are you honest about your intentions (with yourself and her)?

    3. Perhaps you are unconsciously choosing people who will reject you. Low self-esteem (You do not have the self-confidence to be straight forward about your intentions and wishes; or you do not KNOW what you want)? Not really ready?

    4. There is a larger scheme of things: perhaps you somehow know and intuit that now is NOT the time. Perhaps fate has something BETTER in store for you. I usually always realize that everything happens with perfect timing. It is HARD at the time, but I later realize that if these things had not happened as they did, things would have turned out much differently - for the worse. (e.g. You decide to date Ms Dumbass Crazy Fart, and realize Ms Dream Girl walks by but you cannot act. If you are single, you can.)

    So be patient. He who seeks does not find. When you are in tune with yourself, content and pleased with life, the right person usually comes along for you at just the right moment. However, you also have to be at a stage in your life when you can realize it, ACCEPT it, and DO something (R-A-D principle).
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  3. #23
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Talk less. Wink more. But not too much. Inscrutable is where you want to live. Inscrutable yet confident. Be the blank screen for them to project desirability onto.

  4. #24
    Junior Member skoko's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Babylon Candle;232631]
    i often get a sense of shallowness when a girl of average looks hits on me....like if i dont really know her, shes only going by my looks...(when shes attractive i cant help but at least entertain the thought! how horribly SJ of me lol) ... second, if im not phsyically attracted to them, i will have no problem flirting with them, having fun etc....im not an asshole...but i just wont feel right about it.

    I have had similar issues in the past, i'm a little older and worked through some of these issues.

    If you are not attracted to them you have no problem flirting etc. But if you are attracted you act differentlly. If you could act the same as you do around females you are not attracted to, would it be different? Why can't you act the same? The answer is CONFIDENCE. When you are attracted to a girl, you are probably telling yourself at some level that you are not worthy of them, something is wrong with you, or other self-defeating thoughts.

    You must deny these thoughts, and replace them with more positive ones. (like a little personal pep-talk)

    I know it's easier said than done, but if you can act the same way around girls you are attracted to as ones you are not attracted to you will not find youself in the FZ so often.

  5. #25
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skoko View Post
    If you are not attracted to them you have no problem flirting etc. But if you are attracted you act differentlly. If you could act the same as you do around females you are not attracted to, would it be different? Why can't you act the same? The answer is CONFIDENCE. When you are attracted to a girl, you are probably telling yourself at some level that you are not worthy of them, something is wrong with you, or other self-defeating thoughts.
    i just, ugh....ive heard this confidence issue a million times. and its like, if you have to tell yourself to have it, aren't you kinda already screwed? i just have trouble taking this insights and actually applying them. they all seem to make so much sense, and then fail in application.

    every time i try to rewrite my inner code to confidence issues, i go about it the wrong way. i just try to copy ESTP and it obviously fails. The proper way i guess would be to try rewrite the INFP code to be more comfortable with the INFP....but i just have a hard time accepting that an INFP is going to be attractive to any non-dominant female (read NTJ lol)

    thanks for taking the time to write though

  6. #26
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Talk less. Wink more. But not too much. Inscrutable is where you want to live. Inscrutable yet confident. Be the blank screen for them to project desirability onto.
    This might work for some, but not for all. I'm not a fan of winkers. They're trying to make me think they've got a secret. It feels fake, and I'm not buying it. And frankly, I like a guy that projects something, rather than being a blank screen. I want to know what he's about, rather than him just mirroring back to me.

  7. #27
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Right, well I am not an expert because I have not been in a lot of relationships (YES, that is true, although I am an ENFP :-P).
    well being an ENFP, you probably had lots of suitors and didnt even know it l

    1. Maybe the women aren't ready. Are you in different stages of life? Have they just broken up with people? Are they mature enough? Are you "looking" in the right places? Or do they have totally different interests and views on life? (By the way, you shouldn't LOOK at all).

    2. Maybe you aren't ready. You think you are, but you really aren't. Perhaps you need to mature a bit more. (I don't mean that meanly - we all need to grow and mature). Perhaps you are trying too hard - that turns off folks immediately (S sees it on some level; N feels/intuits it on some level). Are you honest about your intentions (with yourself and her)?
    see in my own mind, i just assumed all forms of trying too hard could be avoided by avoiding indication of interest (texting her, calling her, innuendo, asking her out, excessive flirting, flowers, letters, gifts etc) ....but i guess im learning that trying to hard can still happen, even when you never even ask lol

    body language i guess....

    last year (august through may) i eventaully came to the conclusion that im not ready and so i just stopped trying...but like for real....i became more introverted than avg introvert...when i went out, i just wouldnt even talk to girls unless they talked to me....i would just hang out with buddies..i stopped texting, facebooking, partying really too, etc...stopped trying to meet new girls...i just kinda said screw it...i just came to accept, alright fine ill be the N wierdo here and i dont care what the girls think (the particulars that we always see at every party), they dont like me anyways

    and you know what....not looking really didnt seem to help at all....not a bit...
    for a while i felt happier....but in the last few months ive come to see how ridiculous this is...who the IS ready that wasnt already BORN ready??? like what life changing moment is ever going to really change me?? so then back to the friend zone i went...and now here i am wondering why its not any different

    3. Perhaps you are unconsciously choosing people who will reject you. Low self-esteem (You do not have the self-confidence to be straight forward about your intentions and wishes; or you do not KNOW what you want)? Not really ready?
    ya captain chick, see seemed to think that im being a romantic masochist....that im avoiding the reality of having a relationship by actively pursuing people that i know will reject me...i might actaully believe her. but im not sure how to change this.

    4. There is a larger scheme of things: perhaps you somehow know and intuit that now is NOT the time. Perhaps fate has something BETTER in store for you. I usually always realize that everything happens with perfect timing. It is HARD at the time, but I later realize that if these things had not happened as they did, things would have turned out much differently - for the worse. (e.g. You decide to date Ms Dumbass Crazy Fart, and realize Ms Dream Girl walks by but you cannot act. If you are single, you can.)
    ya i hear ya bout not being ready...but like i said, what life changing moment is ever going to "make me" ready? im just confused bout the whole deal.


    thanks for writing

  8. #28
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    This might work for some, but not for all. I'm not a fan of winkers. They're trying to make me think they've got a secret. It feels fake, and I'm not buying it. And frankly, I like a guy that projects something, rather than being a blank screen. I want to know what he's about, rather than him just mirroring back to me.
    well and heres the sad truth...the ESTP's that do what he's talking about.....get a lot girls (not that i want to be a player)

    mirroring has been pretty psychologically accepted as a way of beating "the system" (not that i want to beat the system)

  9. #29
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    well and heres the sad truth...the ESTP's that do what he's talking about.....get a lot girls (not that i want to be a player)

    mirroring has been pretty psychologically accepted as a way of beating "the system" (not that i want to beat the system)
    Yeah. I don't know if you want the girls who are gonna fall for that, though. And then you have to be yourself sometime. It sounds like you are looking for a girlfriend, not a one-nighter, right?

  10. #30
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Yeah. I don't know if you want the girls who are gonna fall for that, though. And then you have to be yourself sometime. It sounds like you are looking for a girlfriend, not a one-nighter, right?
    oh gosh no more one nighters.....any idiot can have a one nighter if hes willing to lower his standards enough and put on his drunked ESTP mask for ONE night.....

    so ya i would like to avoid that thank you, been there done that.....

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