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  1. #11
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    My answer was meant to be honest and not an insult to anyone in particular and I am sorry that you seem to have taken it a bit personal. It wasn't meant personally. Perhaps you might consider that I may have different off line experiences than you have before judging me on it. I just see a lot of people in my family life who spend time in debate and trying to flatten each other, turned me off to it.
    Hi Heart, man you are so sweet. I don't think he was judging you on it at all, he was just sending his point across in a very creative manner, thats all.

  2. #12
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    My answer was meant to be honest and not an insult to anyone in particular and I am sorry that you seem to have taken it a bit personal. It wasn't meant personally. Perhaps you might consider that I may have different off line experiences than you have before judging me on it. I just see a lot of people in my family life who spend time in debate and trying to flatten each other, turned me off to it.
    First of all, I never took what you said as an insult at all.

    Secondly, I'm NOT judging you. I'm not saying you're bad for shying away from verbal sparring. All I said was that I hope not everyone thinks like you because then there'd be no one left for me to verbally spar with. You're projecting values and emotions onto statements where none were implied.

    So, because I wasn't feeling insulted, I never judged you, and in fact that the only one inferring moralistic slants is you, I think it would be prudent if you could reassess my statements based on my own perspective, which is simply that, as far as I'm concerned, everyone can do what they want, but I just hope there are plenty of people who like to do what I like to do. I don't condemn people who dislike doing what I like doing. I see a value in it and you don't. There needn't be any visceral reaction to this state of affairs.

    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    I reread my post... I am still vexed that you derived some sort of negative judgment on you... everything negative you've read into my post comes from you.

    "I hope not everyone thinks like you do" <--- as explained above and alluded to by AngryAyrab, it was a way of saying, "Gee, I'm glad there ARE people who aren't turned off by open verbal sparring because I like doing that."

    __________________________________________________ _____________________________

    Example... if you had said, I don't like ballroom dancing... it's just too uncomfortable...

    And I'd said... Man! I would hate for everyone to feel like you did about ballroom dancing... I love doing that shit, and if everyone were like you, I'd have no partners to do ballroom dancing with!

    There's no condemnation here. At least not from me.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  3. #13
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    I have definitely had my mind changed through debate with others (and not just with professors).
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #14
    heart on fire
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    but I just hope there are plenty of people who like to do what I like to do.
    In that case, it seems odd to say "I hope that not everyone thinks like you do" when obviously you know that not everyone does, because you have described finding plenty of sparring partners.

    Plus, I think you probably see a higher version of this and I have seen a lower octave expression of it around me, especially in family situations. All I see is obstinance and a desire to win at all costs

  5. #15
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    ^ OH.... MY.... GOD....

    This is a perfect case study of T's interpreting things one way and F's taking it another... I should refer the debaters on T/F distinctions to this incident...

    Somewhere here lies the crucial difference between the logic of a T and the logic of an F.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  6. #16
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    ^ OH.... MY.... GOD....

    This is a perfect case study of T's interpreting things one way and F's taking it another... I should refer the debaters on T/F distinctions to this incident...

    Somewhere here lies the crucial difference between the logic of a T and the logic of an F.
    It is not as bad as "OH... MY... GOD..." surely, a momentary misunderstanding. I simply attempted to illuminate why it struck me as personal by my last post. I will cease now as I don't want to cause any kind of issue or big dramatic scene. Obviously it is all my fault and I accept all blame.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Heart trust me on this one, ENTP's are like families to us ENFP's, they think in exactly the same way we do, and are even more smooth with that Fe. He really meant no offense.

    I am pretty sure, like you said, that you have had a negative experience with this kind of thing before so you might be projecting it over his comment, but I promise you that I am more sure than the fact that I am male that he meant you no offense.

  8. #18
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    In that case, it seems odd to say "I hope that not everyone thinks like you do" when obviously you know that not everyone does, because you have described finding plenty of sparring partners.

    Plus, I think you probably see a higher version of this and I have seen a lower octave expression of it around me, especially in family situations. All I see is obstinance and a desire to win at all costs
    Okay... I should have phrased it differently... I'm sorry (genuinely) for the misunderstanding... I think maybe my NTP'ness is being expressed in expecting everyone to read the lines without necessarily being affected (in the technical sense) by them...

    No... no... I understand where you're coming from... I should have represented both sides in my response... I don't enjoy debating with my father, who is super-smart and yet very close-minded when it comes to things like homosexuality (he's not in favor of legal discrimination, as such... though he wants NOTHING to do with them... hates watching shows with gays or lesbians in them... it's a touchier issue than even gay marriage).

    One HAS to find the right people to do it with... which is where I think AngryAyrab was coming from when he started this thread... typing helps, but there's the supervenient je-ne-sais-quois of human personality that also tilts the scales towards obduracy or receptivity.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  9. #19
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    ^ OH.... MY.... GOD....

    This is a perfect case study of T's interpreting things one way and F's taking it another... I should refer the debaters on T/F distinctions to this incident...

    Somewhere here lies the crucial difference between the logic of a T and the logic of an F.
    LMFAO, dude you can't just pigeon hole all us F's, now you hurt my feelings, thats it we aren't speaking anymore. Wait, I mean texting, or foruming, or whatever the hell this thing is... aaauuuhhhh... just go away.

  10. #20
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    It is not as bad as "OH... MY... GOD..." surely, a momentary misunderstanding. I simply attempted to illuminate why it struck me as personal by my last post. I will cease now as I don't want to cause any kind of issue or big dramatic scene. Obviously it is all my fault and I accept all blame.
    I get you... I was being somewhat faux-enthusiastic with the "OH... MY... GOD...", though I do think there was some value in the exchange.

    But as for this: "Obviously it is all my fault and I accept all blame." I realize that was probably sarcastic, but still... No!!!!

    I've accepted blame too! See! ^
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

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