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  1. #11
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    Thanks uumlau. Agreed, maybe more like ESTJ.

    I do think, in her case, the primary ideal is in fact the relationship. Yes, this is a potential stressor on us, because it makes it harder to discuss problems without her feeling she's failed, leading to defensiveness. I don't make things any easier, because I carry my own baggage that exacerbates the problem.

    What I know for sure is that she's worth every effort, and I will work hard to love her well. This thread helped me understand her a little better, to that end.

  2. #12
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    I agree with @uumlau's post all the way. I know someone (I think ISFJ) once said in a thread I made that intuition feels like a distant voice that is present within his mind everyday. It's the same for myself and Si. There's a side of me (that's denied and repressed as much as possible hehe) that's very rigid and critical. It can even show itself in the smallest ways, like when I show a game to my friend. They'll play it and I might be like "well why don't you try playing it this way?" And then if they keep on doing it how they're doing it, NeFi usually comes back to the surface and I just go on not caring. Or if they say sure, then Te will start hammering away and I'll be like "okay, if you're gonna do it this way then it'd be most practical to organize things this way, do these tasks within this certain time frame, etc." Of course, they're just little things like that.

    In relationships it shows up even more. I have a certain ideal of what my relationships will be like and if guys start going against that ideal I'll start to run away and look for a new one somewhere else who might fit the picture better. I'm trying to work around this and be more open-minded about the personalities of people I find attractive but yeah, there's some of idealism there.

    I haven't really done much bossing around with people, but when I do feel stressed/attacked I operate from an "I'm always right" mentality. It's immature, but I think @EJCC once said in a video about ESTJs that it's much easier for me (and probably a lot of other people) to feel like you're always right and wait to feel proven wrong.

    Other than that, chances are if you think an ENFP looks like an NTJ they're probably not ENFP. It's coming from a little personal side of me, but I don't look rigid or organized in the slightest haha and I would hardly want to look like that. I prefer to be loosey goosey free-flowing self. I guess there might be some dark/flirty snark that might come from both types.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  3. #13
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    I agree with @uumlau as well.

    @Chanaynay Was the video you were thinking of the one where I tried to narrow "core" ESTJ-ness down to four traits? One of those traits was "being right until proven wrong". Anyway, the way you phrased it ties in with uumlau's post and also contradicts mine, because inherent in ENFP "always right" Te is a very emotionally loaded version of Si that rejects outside input and skews all interpretation of outside data. Now that I think about it, I'm guessing that people confuse ExTJ Te with the Te I'm describing and assume it's personal, when it might not be if you're talking to an ExTJ.

    Because I'm bored and don't want to link my vid outside of the private section where vids go, I transcribed that part of the vid:

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC
    ...Being right until proven wrong. By that I mean, having working assumptions at all times, regardless of how true they are, regardless of how much evidence is behind them. ESTJs just find it easier ... always working under the assumption that you're right, hoping that at some point someone will correct you, or you can backpedal based on new evidence that you find -- but generally not thinking about that, generally thinking about what you've got NOW and relying upon that. The nature of that way of operating is that it's pretty easy to convince them, if you do have evidence like I mentioned before, but there are several downsides to, you know, acting like you're right, always. And one of those downsides is that people are generally... People don't seem like they really want to try to convince me of things, that they give up early or they just don't want to bother, because they assume from how certain i sound that I'm going to be very emotionally tied to what I'm saying. Which is not necessarily true at all. So that's a downside.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #14
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    @Chanaynay Was the video you were thinking of the one where I tried to narrow "core" ESTJ-ness down to four traits? One of those traits was "being right until proven wrong". Anyway, the way you phrased it ties in with uumlau's post and also contradicts mine, because inherent in ENFP "always right" Te is a very emotionally loaded version of Si that rejects outside input and skews all interpretation of outside data. Now that I think about it, I'm guessing that people confuse ExTJ Te with the Te I'm describing and assume it's personal, when it might not be if you're talking to an ExTJ.
    Ah yes, precisely. The difference is that the Te/Si usage in the ENFP in that case would be a defense mechanism against stress, while for the ESTJ it comes naturally. But that's probably why people think ENFPs appear ExTJ-like. Actually given the number of self-typed NFPs studying MBTI I wouldn't be surprised if this misconception comes from having a less healthy relationship with Te/Si.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  5. #15
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    sounds enfj

  6. #16
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Ah yes, precisely. The difference is that the Te/Si usage in the ENFP in that case would be a defense mechanism against stress, while for the ESTJ it comes naturally. But that's probably why people think ENFPs appear ExTJ-like. Actually given the number of self-typed NFPs studying MBTI I wouldn't be surprised if this misconception comes from having a less healthy relationship with Te/Si.
    And because it's an ENFP under stress, the "until proven wrong" part never happens. There is too much emotional investment in being right to let go of it.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  7. #17
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    And because it's an ENFP under stress, the "until proven wrong" part never happens.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


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