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  1. #11
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lalalandscape View Post
    Have you considered the morality behind your decision to eat meat? I do not mean to come off as judgmental towards you, I guess I am just wondering if the moral implications of eating meat could possibly outweigh the value of deriving pleasure from eating? Also, it is definitely really possible to enjoy eating and not eat meat. You would be surprised how easy it is to not eat meat and still enjoy eating.
    I have and I decided I don't care. maybe you think I'm a sociopath, but I'm not.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  2. #12
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by lalalandscape View Post
    What makes you feel better about not eating much meat? And do you think it is possible you could feel better if you did not eat any meat?
    I think my body works better without so much meat.
    However, I have tried going vegetarian, and I felt worse, so it's a compromise.
    I limit red meat and eat mostly fish and chicken.

  3. #13
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lalalandscape View Post
    I have couple simple questions to ask as I would like to discuss this topic, and I thought NF's would be a good demographic for this issue.

    1. Are you a vegetarian / vegan, or do you eat meat?
    2. What are your reasons to support whichever one you are?

    That's it!

    I'd appreciate all responses.
    1.) I follow a well-balanced omnivorous diet. I eat small portions of poultry & fish a few times a week. Other meats are gross, & tend to upset my stomach. I love fresh produce, & it makes up most of my meals. I also consume animal products such as egg whites, cheese, & yogurts. I don't like milk due to the taste- I sub almond milk in its place. My health is in consistently good condition when I consistently follow this diet (my personal pitfall is simply skipping food altogether when stressed). If it ain't broke, I don't have time/drive to fix it.

    2.) My physicians & nutritionists over the past decade have consistently approved of my diet, going as far as to say they wished more of their patients ate these foods. My doctors were competent, as far as I can tell. From my own personal research on foods, anatomy/physiology, & nutrition over the years (being neurotic as hell about food, I've spent a creepy amt of time reading up), I see nothing substantial from a scientific pov to support dropping fish & birds from my diet.

    The moral issue is nonexistent to me, to be quite candid. I have more immediate troubles in my life- there's no room for me to really care about the plight of fish & fowl. However, certain care/containment practices, etc gross me out, so I do try to find local products when I can. Yes, my stance is pure selfishness, & I'm okay with it. I've known a lot of vegan/vegetarians, & none have swayed my decisions with their information. The transition & dietary supplementation is more trouble than its worth, to me.. & as I said.. I truly just.. don't care enough. /shrug
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    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I have and I decided I don't care. maybe you think I'm a sociopath, but I'm not.
    I do not think you are a sociopath, but why don't you care?

  5. #15
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Ive been contemplating it and am exploring the lifestyle actively atm.

    I do feel the ethics behind it are valid, to certain extent. While I am not opposed to consuming animals (we are predators after all), I do vehemently oppose the way we treat our sources of food. While bio and organic businesses are doing their best to rectify the situation, I fear that economics always tends to win out in the end and the suffering of animals comes in last. Neutering animals without anaesthetics, anally electrocuting them, keeping them in horrendous conditions, and cutting off skin without any anaesthetics, dragging a newborn calf away from its mom the second it is born to be raised in the dark without any light to keep the meat light with the mother left shrieking after her young...

    I mean, it aint just about killing and eating them at that point. It is about slavery, misery, abuse and agony. It is about exploitation and inhumanity and the dismissal of the pain and misery of other creatures - chronic pain and misery at that. An entire life's worth of it. Extreme and deliberate objectification and cruelty ftw.

    Otoh, there is the health issue. Vegans can most certainly be some of the healthiest people around, but the facts are that B12, zinc, iron, protein and some other nutrients can be an issue. It takes a certain diligence to keep a healthy vegan diet going. There are certain fortified plant milks that contain all these nutrients however these days so all in all, it is certainly doable. And then there is the matter of whether or not your body will react well to it, depending on your own genetic preferences....which is something you occasionally only find out after several years, after your body has depleted your reserves, so yearly blood work is certainly a smart move. It is certainly a lot of work to change over but potentially very rewarding.

    Right now, I'm just adding in typical things that vegans eat into my diet. I keep what I like, I chuck what aint for me, and I keep an eye on which nutrients Ive had that day. So far, Ive discovered plenty of benefits and exciting new ways to enjoy food. Im just going to see how my body responds and feels as I go along. If it turns out my body does crave meat occasionally, I might go for wild salmon and chicken eggs from a local person who keeps chickens as pets or something (or even get my own chickens at some point). So I'll be trying out if I can make the shift, for myself.

    There is also an argument to be made that going vegan is probably one of the best things you can do to help out with the climate change and environmental problems we are faced with as it takes up humongous resources such as water, and produces a massive amount of waste which releases methane gas into the atmosphere to raise this much cattle as you have to both grow the crops to feed those animals and deal with their waste disposal to get the meat you want.

    That said, as Im doing this, I can totally understand why people are unconvinced, afraid, unwilling, uninterested and unmotivated to go through this type of change as it is rather overwhelming and a massive lifestyle change, especially if you were to do it cold turkey. Not to mention that it does often also generate problems for social situations and general awkwardness wrt judgement and heated debates with your loved ones. Ive felt strongly for a long time about this, but did always chicken out due to convenience, uncertainty as to whether it was sustainable and whether I had the willpower to actually change as well as the social peer pressure you endure. And I have a strong motivation to actually attempt this.

    In short, it aint something one can or should force onto someone else, as it is ultimately their decision and right to choose.
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  6. #16
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I've been all three except I have not eaten red meat ever on purpose (but I have by mistake)

    I was raised vegetarian and so I find that mode the easiest for me to continue. We tried being vegan, but it is really hard to get the right nutrition and have food taste good unless you can take quite a bit of time and shop at very specific stores. Ideally I'd like to be vegan mostly because of the harm to cows in the dairy industry. My husband eats meat and so I will sometimes eat white meat, but end up moving away from it. I cook two different types of meatballs for spaghetti: one meat and one veggie for me. I don't tend to impose my ideas on others in my personal life, so the food dynamic doesn't have any tension, but I just reach a point that I can't chew up and swallow something that I empathize with.

    I am really upset about the treatment of animals in the meat industry and it is the primary motivation to not eat meat. I typically like the taste of meat, but feel sick on some level about it. I find that it is possible to have savory, yummy food w/o it.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #17
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Vegetables do vastly improve my mood, and seem to be essential for magnificent, boa-constrictor like shits. Most necessary indeed for your bowels.

    I've been eating a zucchini from the farmer's market everyday this summer.
    Haha. True fact!
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  8. #18
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    @Amargith, actually your post reminded me of an ex's friend. In his early 20s he'd gone vegan (for a girlfriend, incidentally)- even saw a nutritionist to make sure he was getting everything he needed.

    All was going well for about a month.. happy with the foods, happy with the girlfriend.. except in bed.
    He had increasing difficulty rising to the occasion. Eventually it stopped working at all.
    Started to feel increasingly tired all the time, too.

    Saw his physician. Turns out he had some genetic predispositions to become severely anemic (& some other things that I don't recall presently). While you can get a lot of proteins & nutrients from plants, it was a lot easier- & more consistent- for him to return to eating some meats.
    He returned to eating poultry/seafood, & was soon in top condition.

    But yeah, genes are an important factor regarding what our own bodies best synthesize, too.

    I don't think it's entirely necessary to cut out meats our bodies can make use of just because of inhumane practices. We can (& many have been) work to change those practices, however. Win/win, imo.

    This article link below further explains some health advantages of incorporating lean meats into one's diet:

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/10...in-advantages/
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  9. #19
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    @Amargith, actually your post reminded me of an ex's friend. In his early 20s he'd gone vegan (for a girlfriend, incidentally)- even saw a nutritionist to make sure he was getting everything he needed.

    All was going well for about a month.. happy with the foods, happy with the girlfriend.. except in bed.
    He had increasing difficulty rising to the occasion. Eventually it stopped working at all.
    Started to feel increasingly tired all the time, too.

    Saw his physician. Turns out he had some genetic predispositions to become severely anemic (& some other things that I don't recall presently). While you can get a lot of proteins & nutrients from plants, it was a lot easier- & more consistent- for him to return to eating some meats.
    He returned to eating poultry/seafood, & was soon in top condition.

    But yeah, genes are an important factor regarding what our own bodies best synthesize, too.

    I don't think it's entirely necessary to cut out meats our bodies can make use of just because of inhumane practices. We can (& many have been) work to change those practices, however. Win/win, imo.

    This article link below further explains some health advantages of incorporating lean meats into one's diet:

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/10...in-advantages/
    Thank you for the link. And I am aware of this, as Ive been researching the topic for quite a while now. And honestly, Im on the fence still on this.

    Again, I do appreciate the serious steps that have been taken in improving especially the welfare of animals in both the bio and organic industry but Im also not naive enough to believe their welfare will *ever* outweigh the dollar. The fact of the matter is that in many cases, anaesthetics and antibiotics are expensive and a cost theyd rather not bother with, especially with large animals as anaesthetics get administered per pound of animal and the price can really go up that way. The difference in care between pets and farm animals is...mindboggling. And even with pets, the amount of abuse and negligence that happens due to the power position people hold over them is detestable. And then Im not even talking about looking at this from my animal behaviorists pov, where the environmental factors for these animals are just...detrimental to their mental and physical health as giving them the proper space and respecting their natural behavior would cost the company so much money they wouldnt be economically viable. So forgive me, if I do not buy that line of thinking.

    Otoh, I am aware and fully accepting of the fact that I am an omnivore. And that my health might be at stake, which is why Im reluctantly admitting that I might not be able to fully go vegan. But I'm willing to explore it, and try to go as vegan as I can without risking my health in the process. Either way, it is never a bad idea to go for a healthy amount of veg, fruit, and other plant type foods which is what im trying to improve in my own lifestyle atm.
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  10. #20
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lalalandscape View Post
    Have you considered the morality behind your decision to eat meat? I do not mean to come off as judgmental towards you, I guess I am just wondering if the moral implications of eating meat could possibly outweigh the value of deriving pleasure from eating? Also, it is definitely really possible to enjoy eating and not eat meat. You would be surprised how easy it is to not eat meat and still enjoy eating.
    I don't feel like condemning wolves and bears as immoral, especially since these are some of the most threatened species. They're certainly more threatened than sheep and cows. I can't figure out how someone can argue that it's ok for wolves and bears to eat meat, but not people.

    Mostly, I don't care. The only reason I would ever become vegetarian is to get women, and that doesn't sit with me the right way. For all the 4's out there, you can understand it as an authenticity thing. I'd only be a vegetarian because other people are doing it, and that's not a good enough reason for me. I don't care much about the issues involved, so that won't factor into it.

    A lot of the people I know who don't eat meat never liked eating it in the first place, which doesn't really say that much one way or the other about someone's moral character. It's like taking a vow of celibacy when you're a eunuch.

    I don't like getting involved in causes unless I care about them, and this is not one of the causes I care about.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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