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  1. #11
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    @Poimandres....thanks for the tag I most deff feel appricated . I wish I knew more infj's outside type-c. That being said @cafe and @Tiltyred are 2 of my fav infj's here.They give off this stern yet caring vibe in their responses that I really admire.
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

  2. #12
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    I appreciate INFJ's for being warm and affirming when I ramble on about my hobbies or theoretical concepts that don't directly involve feelings. Sometimes too nice to my face - while I ramble on - to later realize by a third party that my ramblings were neither educational, nor interesting. That is humiliating for me (at first), but I understand and I appreciate INFJ's for listening.

  3. #13
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I know two guy musicians irl that I think are INFJs. One has a group I'll be playing with and he is definitely an INF, but I think he is a J because of some aspects of his lyrics and he is very organized and gets scores and everything to people right away. He plans really well and his lyrics sound like he is trying to create a coherent world view out of the chaos. Both of these people have a demeanor similar to mine and seem quite kind to everyone.

    I have a couple of INFP female friends, and one possible INFJ, but when I talk to her it feels like she oscillates between ISFJ and INFJ, and I adore her. She is more concrete than I am, but more intelligent and trained in the sciences and psychology.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #14
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    I think the best thing about INFJs is that they actually listen to you and are interested in you. It's amazing how many people out there don't care enough to ask you how you are doing, or what you are up to and are only waiting for their turn to talk. I like to be sure to return the favor.

  5. #15
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    this thread is an interesting concept isn't it?
    a thread whose entire goal to make people feel better about themselves...

    i'm trying to imagine how i would react to an entp variation of it, and i think it would mostly make me uncomfortable - it would feel like there's something inherently disingenuous about it - it's like "you'll do well" before an interview or "everything will be alright" after something goes wrong... the apparent goal of such situations clearly isn't to make an assessment - such as how likely you are to do well on the interview or how likely are things to get better after a tragedy - but rather it's to simulate the emotional impact such an assessment would have. it might be true or it might not be true, but the motive is clearly independent of the need for that - i can appreciate the thought but i immediately become suspicious of the content.

    maybe mistakenly - i somewhat attribute this understanding with my Fe - so i am trying to understand why is such feedback digested so differently, positively and at ease by the FJs here so far (who from my experience tend to have a better awareness of such social dynamics then i do).

  6. #16
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    this thread is an interesting concept isn't it?
    a thread whose entire goal to make people feel better about themselves...

    i'm trying to imagine how i would react to an entp variation of it, and i think it would mostly make me uncomfortable - it would feel like there's something inherently disingenuous about it - it's like "you'll do well" before an interview or "everything will be alright" after something goes wrong... the apparent goal of such situations clearly isn't to make an assessment - such as how likely you are to do well on the interview or how likely are things to get better after a tragedy - but rather it's to simulate the emotional impact such an assessment would have. it might be true or it might not be true, but the motive is clearly independent of the need for that - i can appreciate the thought but i immediately become suspicious of the content.

    maybe mistakenly - i somewhat attribute this understanding with my Fe - so i am trying to understand why is such feedback digested so differently, positively and at ease by the FJs here so far (who from my experience tend to have a better awareness of such social dynamics then i do).
    Why should praise be any less genuine than criticism? I have noticed that there is a cultural trend to be suspicious of praise as though it is white washing the truth. This might come as a reaction against the Cold War time period in which there was a lot of propaganda in which anything was made to look good no matter how destructive or false. I find that there are positives and negatives, but many people tend to be more aware of the negatives, so even though it may be Fe, I don't see a positive statement as being any more potentially false than a negative one, since both can be used to manipulate. I've more often been manipulated through negative comments and extremely general praise. I've noticed that false praise and destructive criticism are both lacking specificity and are often over-stated. The false praise tends to be "You're so talented", but what does that mean? These tend to be phrases that are used with anyone, and lack individuality. The same is true of non-constructive criticism. Although, that isn't to make people worry if they word their comments specifically enough. I tend to assume the motivation is good unless there emerges a pattern of intentional harm, then I will dismiss the praise as not meaning anything if not attached to an action to validate it. Not sure if that makes sense.

    As a teacher, I tend to praise people a great deal, although I have to provide constructive criticism as well. I usually focus on reinforcing as much of the positive as possible, and the negative is specific and accompanied by steps to correct the problem. I've also noticed that failures and wrong answers are often mostly correct, but just missed a step or two. To identify everything that is right and positive, people can feel some strength that they can make progress as a person.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #17
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i'm trying to imagine how i would react to an entp variation of it, and i think it would mostly make me uncomfortable - it would feel like there's something inherently disingenuous about it - it's like "you'll do well" before an interview or "everything will be alright" after something goes wrong... the apparent goal of such situations clearly isn't to make an assessment - such as how likely you are to do well on the interview or how likely are things to get better after a tragedy - but rather it's to simulate the emotional impact such an assessment would have. it might be true or it might not be true, but the motive is clearly independent of the need for that - i can appreciate the thought but i immediately become suspicious of the content.
    Yes, it did occur to me that people might interpret this as overidealization, condescension, mindless feel-good blather.

    I admit the goal at rock bottom ISN'T to make a complete assessment of INFJ's, I specifically asked for positive answers. That being said, I did ask for specific, positive things, and I wanted them to be true. The only reason I tried to preclude any negative feedback was because I felt that there had been plenty contributed about the negative side of INFJ's. We have already heard plenty of "I dated an INFJ and she used her psychic powers to manipulate me, blah, blah, blah".

    This thread isn't about making soothing statements that have no basis in reality. But I admit, I could have framed the OP better. I'm not coming across as detached or neutral, either. My praise wouldn't be scientifically valid, or whatever, since I admit I have an interest in people feeling good. But I hope you believe me when I say I am sincere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I think the best thing about INFJs is that they actually listen to you and are interested in you. It's amazing how many people out there don't care enough to ask you how you are doing, or what you are up to and are only waiting for their turn to talk. I like to be sure to return the favor.
    So true! I spend most of my days holding things in, or glossing over them humorously, because I know most people just aren't interested in what I REALLY want to say. To encounter people who are not only willing to listen, but will listen well (asking little questions here and there to clarify, demonstrating understanding of your internal landscape), is like finding an oasis in a conversational desert.

    I know that INFJ's don't have a monopoly on that level of listening, but I find they tend to have a knack for it.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Why should praise be any less genuine than criticism? I have noticed that there is a cultural trend to be suspicious of praise as though it is white washing the truth.
    i'm not sure that is the case in the first place - criticism recognized with the goal of discrediting is automatically targeted as a potential fallacy (looking to see if it criticizes a source rather than what is stated), and criticism with the goal of offended is largely viewed as bullying. this is also largely applicable to your cold war example, as actions done by the apposing side were reframed as negative to the extreme regardless of context - retaliations was framed as offense just as much as one's own offenses were reframed as liberation.

    in either cases the goal isn't to describe things as accurate but to deliver an emotional impact a description would have if it was true (regardless if it is).

  9. #19
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i'm not sure that is the case in the first place - criticism recognized with the goal of discrediting is automatically targeted as a potential fallacy (looking to see if it criticizes a source rather than what is stated), and criticism with the goal of offended is largely viewed as bullying. this is also largely applicable to your cold war example, as actions done by the apposing side were reframed as negative to the extreme regardless of context - retaliations was framed as offense just as much as one's own offenses were reframed as liberation.

    in either cases the goal isn't to describe things as accurate but to deliver an emotional impact a description would have if it was true (regardless if it is).
    There is a way that praise can be used for exactly the same purpose as criticism - to reveal truth and accuracy. When I teach students, it is my job to correct their inaccuracies. What I have found is that the more you fixate on the inaccuracies, the more they do as well and it reinforces these. If you focus on what is being done correctly, then they focus on that and become more of that. Most errors are partly correct, and mistakes tend to be inconsistencies with correct execution. The same is true of a behavior. IF the behavior is a flaw, in most cases there are aspects to it that are beneficial, but either inconsistently performed or lacking in one step or layer.

    For example, when a person exhibits elitist, snobby behavior, I can point out that negativity (and have), or I can see that there are standards that are being valued which may be a positive. If someone is extremely rude, critical, judgmental, they might be trying to get at the truth. That aspect of their behavior is a positive. A critique that only views the negative or only the positive implies that sort of generality that you are discussing. People aren't always aware of when they do something right, positive, helpful, etc., so it helps convey important information to communicate that. That way a person knows exactly what they are trying to do consistently. A person can say to someone "you need to do this..." a million times, but there is nothing more effective than pointing out when the person actually does it right because then they know precisely how it feels.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    A critique that only views the negative or only the positive implies that sort of generality that you are discussing.
    right, but isn't that the case here? it's specifically asking for the positive. it's not posing a question or asking for information/analysis/examples/experiences of anything in particular other than simply asking - "what information do you have on subject A which is positive?"

    on a side note regarding teaching:

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