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  1. #11
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I talk to myself in the car. By the time I get to or from work, I've figured it out.
    Something that’s somewhat surprising to me is that I have written out quite a few problems- with the intention of posting them here or asking someone PM- and the very act of writing something out in such a way for other people to hear it often makes the answer I’m looking for surface on its own. And that doesn’t happen if I’m simply journaling. I have to either really have the intention of posting or sending it to someone- because as I write it, then I anticipate what the response will be as I’m writing and I end up adjusting it to accommodate the possible response (and then anticipate what the response will be to that, adjust, and after a while of this happening over and over- the answer I’m looking for will surface). And most of the time it never gets posted or sent- yet if it doesn’t start out as actually attempting to get feedback from others, I don’t hear that ‘anticipated answer’ as I’m writing it.

    This is something I’ve noticed before in writing people occasionally- but since joining the forum (and communicating via written message a great deal more than I previously had) it’s become more obvious to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    What if you need a broader range of opinions to gather information? For example, I may want to understand how someone would see a situation and demonstrate using an example from my life. Rather than providing the information I am seeking though, they assume that I am distressed about the situation cited, which then becomes frustrating to me, because then I have to deal with how to interact with them, as well as still not having the answer to my question so that I can proceed.
    Yeah, that’s confusing too. I sometimes wish I could post things here to get an opinion- just to get as varied a collection of opinions possible- but responses that seem aimed towards investigating a direction that isn't helpful to me feel weird to get. And just in general, many times things come in that I just instantly know are going in an unhelpful direction- I don’t want to come across ungrateful for the attempt, but it’s just more confusing to me than helpful. And yet I do also often crave being able to get a more varied outside opinion of the situation. In short: I don’t know, and I’m probably more at a loss than you are on how to remedy it (being least so).

    I rather envy a friend of mine who has been on livejournal for 10 years now. She’s gathered *a lot* of acquaintances there, and the filter is such that she can pick and choose certain people to see her posts. I’ve often thought that would be very helpful- when I’m upset or confused, to know I can jot down the raw thoughts about it and have a group of people that will see it for what it is (those she's learned are generally interested in investigating issues in the same direction and can help clean up the internal mess) instead of trying to take it in an unhelpful direction.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  2. #12
    garbage
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Do you just feel more sure in your conclusions right away, or do a couple of functions work in tandem to allow you to feel that clarity right away without the need to houseclean first?
    The latter. Principles and logic, with flexible fundamental axioms, drive a sense of confidence.

    For the most part, I make very quick conclusions with the information that I have in front of me.

    At the same time, I also make conclusions that incorporate different sets of potential future information. That is, I make many 'hypothetical' conclusions and am sure of all of them; and I'm then just contingent upon more information to fold them all into 'the' conclusion. Once I lift the lid of the box, that cat's either alive or dead.

    An internal set of fundamental principles drives 'pre-making' decisions that way. They'll take whatever information rolls along and produce a nice, aligned conclusion.

    'course, I typed this up, thought about it a bit, and changed the answer in my first line. So.. what I say here is just a general rule.
    Last edited by garbage; 06-26-2013 at 07:50 PM. Reason: Edited!

  3. #13
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I talk to myself quite a bit. I'm just thankful for the prevalence of cell phones with ear pieces, b/c now I no longer look like a crazy maniac.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #14
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    In general:
    To connect, on any level. Just as a substitute for silence, sometimes, and other times because I actually want to engage with other people. Opening the door for feedback usually shows that you trust someone and respect their opinion.

    When worried, tense or otherwise upset:
    If I keep too much to myself, I don't have to consider my thoughts from other perspectives; eventually my mind becomes a swamp of self-fulfilling prophesies and other stagnant, idiosyncratic trains of thought. Dragging my thoughts out into a public sphere forces me to re-evaluate them. Either someone straight out tells me something like, "I think you're missing the point / being a little paranoid / hard on yourself / etc." or I become self-conscious and think, "That person probably thinks I'm missing the point / being a little paranoid / hard on myself / etc., and if they do, they have a good point." Then I stop taking myself so seriously, and the anxiety diffuses.
    ...or I become aware of what false conceptions may be forming in others' minds when I share my thoughts, quickly re-evaluate the situation only to have my initial ideas confirmed, and become more confident and energized in my decision/PoV/whatever.

    And then, like others have said, sometimes talking to myself works just as well. Getting it outside of my head in any way helps.

  5. #15
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    When I need to figure out something, I need to do something in the physical space. I tend to draw shapes and connect them, or I pace back and forth and put different thoughts in different imaginary boxes, or I just go on a long walk and let things fall into place. I only write things down once I know what to do with them -- just to remind myself. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I've always tested quite high on tactile/kinesthetic learning.

    I talk to myself only when I need to regulate my emotions -- never my thoughts. Same goes for venting stuff to other people. I rarely vent, and when I do I warn them in advance (e.g. "Sorry, I'm going to whine now for five minutes, ok? So bear with me for a little bit.")

    One very weird thing is that when I need to figure something out -- sometimes figuring out the right words -- I need to look at people. Sometimes it annoys them because it seems like I'm about to talk to them, but then I just turn back to the computer when I've figured it out. I'm not sure if I do this when I'm alone -- maybe it's the need to 'look away' for a little and if there happens to be people in the room they just draw my gaze.

    4w5 sp/sx EII

  6. #16
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Ive learned to only do that with people I know and trust. I used ot do that with *everyone* and yeah, it gave more of a head ache than it was worth.

    It is also for that reason that I'll rarely open up about something that is important to me to a person who I'm still getting to know properly. I'll usually deflect the question or conversation, soundboard off of my INTJ or someone else I trust, then get back to them. If I don't...I end up overwhelming the other person and coming off as stubborn. At times, with pet peeves, I cannot help it and some people become overwhelmed and even scared by the intensity of passion and amount of contradictory information I bounce off of them, to the point where they perceive the passion as anger directed at them. So I prefer using a go between for that.

    It is also why Im most resistant to being advised by people - I know that I need time to bounce around my own thoughts and feelings first and find out if what they are advising is actually something that could work for me. However, that can look like rejection and stubbornness at first glance, where it just means that I need...time to figure out if it would work for me and which parts could work. Unfotunately, they rarely get to see that process. To circumvent this, i'll often observe others who are going through something I am going through or who are good at things Im looking to resolve in my own life and collect data as to how to solve it that way. Or, I'll give people a hypothetical what-if situation and learn from their experiences - making threads on here is wonderful for that. Straight up advising, I only try when Im desperate and out of time or when I *know* the person won't be offended by my need for introspection of the given advice first as well as won't be offended if I do not follow the advice.

    That said, my INTJ absolutely loves hearing me rant while I sort out my thoughts coz they can literally go *anywhere* and my brain works very differently from his. He'll even spark it just for sheer entertainment value -and at times I'll indulge him by letting Ne go nuts.

    I find that the Fi stuff that I go through tires him out faster though he ll still oblige me if he feels I need it - like right now, a couple we ve known for ages is splitting up and they're both talking to me to try and get through this period. He a) wants to know what is going on and b) realizes I need him to bounce off the information I've gotten in order to do my job and help them through this. It helps me crystallise what the situation needs for myself, so I can keep their confusion due to my actions and words to a minimum. Once I've talked to them again, I'll rinse and repeat, with him as my sounding board, so that I can respond in the most optimum way to them next time and am able to quickly sort the new information into my brain,therefore adjusting my comprehension of how the situation is progressing.

    It will often also trigger insights and epiphanies as to what is likely to happen next and how they are likely to respond to the situation as well as what I can do to either help them through the next moment, or what they need from me to be able to take the next necessary step.

    My INTjs detachment and Ni also helps to succinctly sum up the situation, after Ive extracted all the info I needed from the emotional context that was there, which I then can toss out as it affects my ability to see things clearly - they are good friends that are in a world of pain right now and while empathising is certainly valuable, it won't do them any good long-term after all if my worries for their wellbeing and uncertainty about the future gets in the way of my ability to support them and help them declutter their own mind. And I cannot ask them to do the filtering themselves or bear with me while I sort through shit in front of them in this situation, as they have enough on their mind atm.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  7. #17
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I talk to myself in the car. By the time I get to or from work, I've figured it out.

    Oh gosh yes! I tend to do a lot of alone things aloud in my car...sing, cry, talk. Sometimes saying things aloud gives a whole new perspective... i have had many eureka moments hearing myself say something aloud/hearing someone else voice my thoughts.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  8. #18
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i don't really...i mean maybe to my bf or my mother...i may ne things to death but in general i don't talk much...i mean i have a ping pong style conversation style but i rarely talk for long periods or have to talk things out. my brain is so loud and constant that i forget to share out loud.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #19
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Whether it's a gentle murmur or more, I'm always talking to myself. That which isn't audible is loud and clear in motion and timing.

    thinking of you

  10. #20
    half-nut member briochick's Avatar
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    Yes, I think out loud.

    I used to do it with everyone but I don't anymore. Part of the problem was one of communication. When I want help I ask for it (apparently, that's weird) When I just want to make noise so I can hear my own thoughts, or know I'm able to be heard, I talk. I talk a lot to those who will listen. I've found that many people think that any voicing of thoughts is a request for help, or that you're open to any and all suggestions on anything mentioned. I found this pretty hurtful, felt that people thought I needed advice on things I hadn't ask for help with. Other people were insulted, they thought I was obstinate and difficult; why did I even bring something up if I didn't want help? (Is that what we are supposed to be to each other? Silent unless we are desperate for someone else to step in an solve a problem for us?)

    (On a related communications note, lots of people seem to think that any kind of disagreeing (saying "I disagree" or "I don't know about that" or "I read something that said otherwise" or "can you explain that to me" or "I think that's wrong" or "why do you think that" or anything similar) is a "fight." Apparently, a conversation is supposed to go something like this: "Oh, I really like this thing!" "Really? I like it, too!" "Oh, and I think this thing." "Really? How interesting, I think the same thing! And I think this thing about the thing we agree on." "Me too!" "That's great!" "Would you like to watch The Kardashians while our brains dribble out our ears?" "Sounds wonderful. I'll get ice cream!")

    I do worry though, as my father and brother are extremely short tempered about listening to women "talk," and I've read articles about how men hate to listen to women talk, that most men will find me completely intolerable if I try to "talk" to them.
    -Brio

    "I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life; I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well."
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