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  1. #21
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayshaun View Post
    Keirsey, in PUMII, in his paragraphs describing Healers [INFP], says the following:

    "Healers find it difficult to believe in themselves and to trust themselves. Deeply committed to the positive and the good, yet taught to believe there is evil in them, they can come to develop a certain fascination with the problem of good and evil, sacred and profane. They are drawn toward purity, but can become engrossed with sin, continuously on the lookout for the wickedness that lurks within them. Then, when they believe they have yielded to an impure temptation, they may be given to acts of self-sacrifice in atonement. Others seldom detect this inner turmoil, however, for the struggle between good and evil is within the INFP, who does not feel compelled to make the issue public."

    a little further, about mating, conveying the same idea:

    "INFPs cling to their dreams, and often find it difficult to reconcile a romantic, idealized concept of conjugal life with the realities of everyday living with another person. Even at the best of times, they seem fearful of too much marital bliss, afraid that current happiness may have to be paid for with later sacrifices. The devil is sure to get his due if one experiences too freely of happiness, or, for that matter, of success, or beauty, or wealth, or knowledge."

    What do you think about these statements?

    Are you tormented by this inner, private, Manichean conflict?

    Is the image of the guardian angel popping over one shoulder and the inner-devil over the other appropriate?

    After a break-up do you often feel like you deserve to suffer?
    I agree with the first paragraph for myself, but not the second. I got married at 21 and I knew that there would be thorns with the roses and bumps along the way. I feel that I deserve to as much happiness as the next person and that any happiness I get from my marriage is reflective of what both me and my husband put into our marriage.

    I never felt like I 'deserved' to suffer in break-ups.

    Good vs. Evil is a frequent topic between my husband and I, but where he sees evil as something to be cut out, I see evil as something to be reformed and transformed into positive.

  2. #22

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    "Healers find it difficult to believe in themselves and to trust themselves."

    Out of that whole thing, this is the only sentence I relate to at all.

  3. #23
    homo-loving sonovagun anii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayshaun View Post
    taught to believe there is evil in them, continuously on the lookout for the wickedness that lurks within them.

    What do you think about these statements?

    Are you tormented by this inner, private, Manichean conflict?

    Is the image of the guardian angel popping over one shoulder and the inner-devil over the other appropriate?

    After a break-up do you often feel like you deserve to suffer?
    I used to be troubled by it... but lately I've considered embracing the sacred and the profane, the light and the shadow. It's all within me anyway, not going anywhere, I might as well make these strange bedfellows comfortable.

    Who says I can't be an righteous avenging angel and a naughty sex kitten?

  4. #24
    almost nekkid scantilyclad's Avatar
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    honestly i'm very attracted to evil things and i usually root for the bad guys, because i can usually see where they are coming from, but i myself see me as pretty pure and good. Sometimes i might do something wrong and i always ask myself if it makes me a bad person, or an evil person. I usually decide that it doesn't, although i will still feel guilty about any wrong doing i have done.

    I once lied to break up with someone and i still think of how evil and what a bad person i was for doing it.
    I'm not evil, but i always let the bad things stay on my conscience.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member quietmusician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alesia View Post
    I hate Keirsey's description of INFPs as healers. I just don't feel that way at all.

    As far as good and evil, he really exaggerates that. Personally, I am always on the lookout and have an automatic sense of "good" and "evil". If I see the good side, I'll also be very cognisant of the bad side, and vice versa.

    I've been atheist for about 25 years now, and have totally gotten away from thinking there is evil within me. So, no, I don't think that way. And I try to be rather intellectual with "good" and "evil". I look at it as "ways that help better the quality of human life" and "ways that help lower the quality of human life". I've become very practical in my midlife. That's the Sensing quality that's gotten developed. But on a basic feeling level, I still get the evil and good thing, and do indeed get attracted to trying to figure out the "evil". Mostly in an attempt to understand it, so that I can "fix" it.


    As far as marital bliss. That statement has always confounded me. It's weird. I'm like WTF? Where did he come up with that one? But finding it difficult to reconcile and idealized romantic life with the everyday realities? Yep. Guilty. But aren't we all like that?
    I agree completely. INFP's descriptions are somewhat inane and pretty much fairy tale like. I don't know about others, but my life isn't about what they're describing, lol.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    This isn't ment to be taken literally, it, to me, means that there is a level of vulnerablility in us that can turn us sour..that can easily mix in the bad in the world, and change us. It means that we drift between the good and the bad, and that its hard for us to keep our center. Now for a J, it may be easier to stay strong, but as Ps, it is natural for us to go "astray" sometimes.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayshaun View Post
    "Healers find it difficult to believe in themselves and to trust themselves. Deeply committed to the positive and the good, yet taught to believe there is evil in them, they can come to develop a certain fascination with the problem of good and evil, sacred and profane. They are drawn toward purity, but can become engrossed with sin, continuously on the lookout for the wickedness that lurks within them. Then, when they believe they have yielded to an impure temptation, they may be given to acts of self-sacrifice in atonement. Others seldom detect this inner turmoil, however, for the struggle between good and evil is within the INFP, who does not feel compelled to make the issue public."

    "INFPs cling to their dreams, and often find it difficult to reconcile a romantic, idealized concept of conjugal life with the realities of everyday living with another person. Even at the best of times, they seem fearful of too much marital bliss, afraid that current happiness may have to be paid for with later sacrifices. The devil is sure to get his due if one experiences too freely of happiness, or, for that matter, of success, or beauty, or wealth, or knowledge."
    There's lots of "good vs evil" in those statements... I don't know if I would put it that way. It seems to me that INFP's are the worst kind of perfectionists. There's the expectation that circumstances should be a certain way, and the reality hardly ever lives up to the dream, thus the depression kicks in and so forth.

    I believe that perfectionism extends to INFP's themselves as well... INFP's expect themselves to be perfect and flawless, and they can be very hard on themselves when they fall short of this unattainablely high bar. I think that's why INFP's have such a high rate of depression. It's difficult for them to keep things in perspective. There is no room for fault.

    Personally, I don't think I've ever been fearful of too much bliss. I do think I've been guilty of looking at an otherwise good thing with the glass half empty because it didn't meet my lofty expectations. It seems that I've had the uncanny ability to be dissatisfied when I should've been thankful.

  8. #28
    homo-loving sonovagun anii's Avatar
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    Yes.

    I used to expend alot of energy trying to expand my sacred and shed my profane.

    Now I just embrace them both.

    (Reading "The Dark Side of the Light Chasers" helped.)
    There's reason to be afraid, and reason to open your heart. ~ Seal

    Refreshment for your ears: www.kexp.org

  9. #29
    Senior Member bronte's Avatar
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    "Healers find it difficult to believe in themselves and to trust themselves. Deeply committed to the positive and the good, yet taught to believe there is evil in them, they can come to develop a certain fascination with the problem of good and evil, sacred and profane. They are drawn toward purity, but can become engrossed with sin, continuously on the lookout for the wickedness that lurks within them. Then, when they believe they have yielded to an impure temptation, they may be given to acts of self-sacrifice in atonement. Others seldom detect this inner turmoil, however, for the struggle between good and evil is within the INFP, who does not feel compelled to make the issue public."

    I can really relate to this and still stuggle with it - anni - I'm reading this "The Dark Side of the Light Chasers" now - it's making m cry!!
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  10. #30
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Sometimes I wish I could just be the sin and darkness I've been seen as. Why not? Might as well get blamed for things you do rather than what you don't do...
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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