User Tag List

View Poll Results: What bothers you the most?

Voters
31. You may not vote on this poll
  • selfishness

    4 12.90%
  • arrogance

    7 22.58%
  • insensitivity

    4 12.90%
  • immaturity

    1 3.23%
  • rigidity

    3 9.68%
  • detachment/apathy

    6 19.35%
  • Other (Explain!)

    6 19.35%
First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 69

  1. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I've actually been reading Jung since I last posted in this thread, and even he seem to struggle with defining Feeling. He says "this isn't what feeling actually is, but this is how it appears" on multiple occasions. He describes it as being about accepting or rejecting something. Presumably, something that is "worth" a lot to a feeler is something they accept. How does that sound to you?

    Extraverted Feeling tries to divorce this from the subject as much as possible, whereas introverted Feeling does not.
    Yes this would sound right. However my experiences with Fe implies that this process is no more "divorced" from the process than Fi is. Fe is just measuring worth from the collective point of view. I may be mistaken however.

  2. #42
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    CROW
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    9,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Yes this would sound right. However my experiences with Fe implies that this process is no more "divorced" from the process than Fi is. Fe is just measuring worth from the collective point of view. I may be mistaken however.
    Well, we have to consider what "collective" we are referring to. Like the issue in physics with frames of reference, there are different "collective'" frames. There's humanity, and then there's subgroups within that, all the way from nation-states to groups of friends, or probably even one-on-one relationships. Other individuals would be objects from Jung's point of view.. distinct from the subject.

    I think the emphasis on "collective" frames and individuals gives Fe a more practical aspect. This is just like how Te is more practical than Ti. Just as Ti can get lost in itself without reference to the real world, Fi can do the same thing.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  3. #43
    yap yap yap xenaprincess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    MBTI
    infp
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    663

    Default

    I like INTPs, or the few I've known.

    One is my boss. Another is a coworker I'm very close with, who is female. She is generally awesome, but sometimes I feel guilty during my stressful moments. She can be very patient with me!

    My boss is good...but it can be tough. I have to keep telling myself that his not talking to me for stretches means that he trusts me. But it can be hard. It's like having an absent parent (bosses are so often parental figures whom one aims to please).

    On the other hand, sometimes I am perplexed, genuinely perplexed, when he talks to me and is really nice. No offense. We can relate to each other pretty well and I genuinely like him. But sometimes his sudden nice-ness shocks me (because of the distance I feel at other times).

    Anyhoo.

  4. #44
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    54 so/sp
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    1,860

    Default

    Their love of laughter deeply inspires.

    thinking of you

  5. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Well, we have to consider what "collective" we are referring to. Like the issue in physics with frames of reference, there are different "collective'" frames. There's humanity, and then there's subgroups within that, all the way from nation-states to groups of friends, or probably even one-on-one relationships. Other individuals would be objects from Jung's point of view.. distinct from the subject.

    I think the emphasis on "collective" frames and individuals gives Fe a more practical aspect. This is just like how Te is more practical than Ti. Just as Ti can get lost in itself without reference to the real world, Fi can do the same thing.
    I am not disputing any of that. The "collective" would be ultimately which frame of reference the person is exposed to either in that particular moment or what they have been exposed to substantially (and created impressions in the Pi.) I would think it would inevitably be either family or country (though for N's planet/univese could easily supersede either.)

    I also agree with your statement that the extroverted function would be more practical too (though my function likes to perceive Fe as a redundant and useless practical tool.)

  6. #46
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    2w3 so/sx
    Posts
    1,273

    Default

    I don't like being "put down" when an INTP gets distracted. It's like, "squirrel" and then everything about the social dynamic I've worked so hard to build up with them is gone. There is no such thing as social currency to an INTP. I think if they're around you long enough, they just get used to you and that inferior Fe kicks in and then they're like: "whaaa, where'd you go while I was working on solving the fractle equation of binary suppositions to save the universe just now?"
    Love is the point.

  7. #47
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    CROW
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    9,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I am not disputing any of that. The "collective" would be ultimately which frame of reference the person is exposed to either in that particular moment or what they have been exposed to substantially (and created impressions in the Pi.) I would think it would inevitably be either family or country (though for N's planet/univese could easily supersede either.)
    I think the frame of reference probably changes depending on the situation.
    I also agree with your statement that the extroverted function would be more practical too (though my function likes to perceive Fe as a redundant and useless practical tool.)
    I don't think it's redundant.

    Fe, being extroverted, seems better at communicating than Fi, which is useful for getting people who aren't feelers to understand you. Perhaps Fi cares, but they may not realize that all the person they care about at that moment needs is a few words of encouragement. It seems to me like Fi likes to go to all kinds of lengths to do things for the person they care about, without actually talking to that person about the thing that's troubling them. They seem to have a way from sparing you from the truth, even if the truth is the thing that person actually needs (Like, for instance, the way my INFP mom will hide health problems). I understand that it's done with good intentions, but it does bug me about them.

    I find that, if I care enough to take the time, I can understand Fe. Usually it involves using Ne. I can say, "oh, even if I don't agree, that kind of makes sense."
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  8. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I think the frame of reference probably changes depending on the situation.

    I don't think it's redundant.

    Fe, being extroverted, seems better at communicating than Fi, which is useful for getting people who aren't feelers to understand you. Perhaps Fi cares, but they may not realize that all the person they care about at that moment needs is a few words of encouragement. It seems to me like Fi likes to go to all kinds of lengths to do things for the person they care about, without actually talking to that person about the thing that's troubling them. They seem to have a way from sparing you from the truth, even if the truth is the thing that person actually needs (Like, for instance, the way my INFP mom will hide health problems). I understand that it's done with good intentions, but it does bug me about them.

    I find that, if I care enough to take the time, I can understand Fe. Usually it involves using Ne. I can say, "oh, even if I don't agree, that kind of makes sense."
    When I say "redundant" I mean that in the grand scheme of things it serves no true purpose (or at least that is what my investigation seems to suggest.) However this is an issue with feeling in general. Knowing your own self, your own wants and desires are overrated. Feeling only exists in my understanding because it caused a organism to favour its own young over the efficiency of the hunt/personal survival which in turn caused it to become an advantageous evolutionary trait regardless of environment. But I digress.

    Sparing one from the truth is more a personal preference. I see the reluctance as more like "wait and see" so you can gauge whether they would take the truth in the way you intended. But you are welcome to ignore all this and just bludgeon them if you wish to and let them take it as they see fit. I myself have no trouble being honest with others (often critically) though in the process of doing so it may cause issues which run counter to your values and ideals. I am usually happy with conflict to a degree because I see it as a way of growth. However if I do the same thing to others they don't know that was my goal or may not agree with my views that so in my attempt to raise them up I crush them in the ground instead. So I observe the situation as I really hate not getting what I want.

  9. #49
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I created this thread, because I wanted to see if my perceptions of NF discomfort with NTs was correct. The lion's share of the discomfort appears to be apathy/detachment and arrogance, which is along the lines of what I was expecting.
    then why specify INTPs rather than NTs in general?

    p.s. while so far most have rejected the proposition that i even could be an NF, i might as well add that what bothers me most about INTPs from RL is the freaking sensitivity.

    edit: seriously, they should probably demand sensitivity training before allowing non-INTPs into a software engineering classroom. do you realize how many of you people are there? the other day i got puppy-eyed for not using an INTP chick's interface layout... made me feel like i just stole paparoni from a puppy.

  10. #50
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    CROW
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    9,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    When I say "redundant" I mean that in the grand scheme of things it serves no true purpose (or at least that is what my investigation seems to suggest.) However this is an issue with feeling in general. Knowing your own self, your own wants and desires are overrated. Feeling only exists in my understanding because it caused a organism to favour its own young over the efficiency of the hunt/personal survival which in turn caused it to become an advantageous evolutionary trait regardless of environment. But I digress.
    Gotcha.
    Sparing one from the truth is more a personal preference. I see the reluctance as more like "wait and see" so you can gauge whether they would take the truth in the way you intended. But you are welcome to ignore all this and just bludgeon them if you wish to and let them take it as they see fit. I myself have no trouble being honest with others (often critically) though in the process of doing so it may cause issues which run counter to your values and ideals.
    This is probably what's going on with that. I wonder why a close family member would try to hide getting heart surgery from me. I don't buy the lame explanation that, because it's a stent, it doesn't count as surgery. Perhaps what's going on there was that my happiness and calm is valued more than I value it myself. That makes sense,although I still think my own preferences should enter into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    then why specify INTPs rather than NTs in general?
    That should read.... discomfort with "INTPs". I don't claim to have any ideas about how they react to other NTs, only how they react to me and other INTPs.
    p.s. while so far most have rejected the proposition that i even could be an NF, i might as well add that what bothers me most about INTPs from RL is the freaking sensitivity.
    I won't argue with that. I know I place too much importance on being liked and getting the approval of others. The side effect of this is that I become distraught when I don't get it. I'm working on that. I care about the approval of people for whom their opinion should not matter to me at all.


    the other day i got puppy-eyed for not using an INTP chick's interface layout... made me feel like i just stole paparoni from a puppy.
    This is why I'm working on my poker face, so I can feel puppy-eyed on the inside without others knowing. Honestly, I find that there's not a lot I can do about my emotions most of the time. I find that the best thing to do is to just ride them out. Sometimes bouncing ideas around with others to see if shit is just in my head helps, although not always.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

Similar Threads

  1. What do you miss most about life before the internet?
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 01-02-2016, 12:03 AM
  2. [INTP] what can you tell me about INTP 4w3?
    By think2much in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-13-2012, 11:13 AM
  3. [ESTP] What do you love most about being an ESTP?
    By Crystal Marie in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-22-2011, 08:19 PM
  4. What do you miss most about being a kid?
    By Cenomite in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 133
    Last Post: 03-25-2010, 08:41 AM
  5. [MBTItm] NFs...What do you honestly think about other Types/Temperaments?
    By Nyx in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-31-2009, 09:50 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO