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  1. #61
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhus View Post
    Whenever my programmer friend and I sit and discuss software, his gregarious ENFP girlfriend goes silent. I thought it was because she didn't like, know or want to learn about the subject, but I don't know. But I suspect the reason for her failure to join our cerebral activities will be insightful. Thoughts?


    I'm an INFP web developer (yes I code, primarily in php) and even with that background I WOULD FIND THIS SO VERY BORING! ahhhhhhhh I would rather go watch TV.

    Why?

    I use the internet for a purpose, not as a purpose - the last thing I wanna do after sitting coding at the computer all day is TALK ABOUT CODING!

    And you need to stop calling ENFP's airheads, omg, they can read your intellectual dismissal from 50 yards away and have dismissed you in turn.

    Just sayin'
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #62
    Junior Member Typhus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Most INTPs I know treat ExFPs like airheads. Even if they like them, it's more like "you're a cute & entertaining airhead". Perhaps not true for the OP, but just my observation IRL. ENFPs generally don't like that treatment, and ESFPs only tolerate it if they think it gives them an edge (my ESFP sis says she likes to be "underestimated" as a kind of advantage over people).

    I knew an ENFP who was obsessed with this mutual INTP friend of ours. He pretended not to like her when he kinda did, and most of his contemptuous attitude was towards her being kind of silly. Not in her humor, but just her general way. I think it amused him, but he was also annoyed at times by it. She pursued him relentlessly anyway, as infatuated ENFPs tend to do. Not sure how anyone could miss those signals...

    Oh yeeeaaah, I like design & bright colors, and I'm totally down for a conversation on Kant. IDk why people think an interest in fashion or aesthetics means shallow or not intellectually inclined....
    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post


    There is more to Ne than banter and silly games, you silly silly boy

    Fine, lemme spell it out then. Instead of tearing them a new one for presenting you with a half-assed hypothesis when they discuss something with you, recognize it for the draft that it is, appreciate the fact that they wnat your input on it, and use that Ne of yours together with your Ti to fill the gaps and 'construct' something together, editing the first draft, plugging the holes and actually work together as a team. We dont present full hypotheses, we present ideas. Therefore they will *NEVER* be up to the standard you would be using before presenting your own personal hypotheses. This is also what you *like* about us...that we are spontaneous and bubbly and toss out the weirdest shit first

    So don't punish us for it. Restrain that inner critic of yours and appreciate the invite to work on the project at brainstorming level, bouncing ideas off of each other. And yes..value that Fi input, if you can. We try to do the same with your foreign feeling Ti. I know Fi looks really like its build on air castles, but it most certainly has value and its own logic. So suspend your logical naysaying and watch it work its magic
    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post


    Like others on this thread, I'm wondering why the SJs supposedly flock to him... Maybe they're looking for someone to fix? Or someone to dominate?

    Edit: @digesthisickness might be right about this. I, for one, have an irritating tendency to be much more attracted to guys who already have girlfriends, because 1) I see their real personality and sense of humor right off the bat, and 2) they're much more confident. A lot of the behavior that guys put on in an attempt to get girls to like them, really turns me off. Especially since a lot of that behavior comes from an assumption that all girls want to be waited on, and all girls want guys to come across as being almost too cool for them (regardless of whether they are or not).

    I think INTx = inconveniently deadpan. Even in person. So I can see via text being even worse.

    (My INTJ friend and I have a recurring joke about her troll face being the same as her normal face. And neither of us is sure of whether the pros outweigh the cons, regarding that, or vice versa.)

    I don't think it scares them, as much as it pisses them off.

    Statements like this bug me... Maybe it would bug me less if you translated it into non-MBTI terms.

    What is it about these "ENFP" girls that you find appealing, that supposedly no other girls have?
    I didn't specify the number of SJ women who have expressed interest in me. A handful of SJs have, and one or two SP women. I think that's because SJs are overrepresented in the general population.

    I'd prefer the attentions of ENFx women, preferably ENFP women, because I'm attracted to Extroverted Intuitives. I'm excitable, and playful and prefer a mate with whom I can think and play. I'm repelled by SJ tendencies toward rules, control, social role enforcement, and general failure of critical thinking. I'm an INTP but part of me is very ENFP, and that attracts me to ENFP women.

    ENFPs are socially skilled, they're expressive in a way that draws me to them. In my experience with my ENFP friends, we tend to have a strong mindmate connection that I cannot express, but there are threads on this: ENFP and INTP Magnetic Pull?

    But I'm not attracted to any and all ENFP women. They're not interchangeable. I have some F and I need someone with a bit of T in them so that we can understand each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I still don't get it. I do not get why you are attracted to a person when you label them as 'airheaded'. And I *still* haven't seen an appreciation for their strengths from any of the INTPs in here.

    All youve said is that they are airheaded, gregarious, sexy *wink wink* and you want to remove their pants (and yeah, I get that that was to just add some spice to the posts, but still). Im sorry but...I'm not your fucking blow-up doll. Nor am I arm candy. And as was stated before in this thread.. I read people well, so I *will* know that that is all you want from me. There has been no mention of appreciation, respect, not even any evidence of even noticing what you actually *like* about us. About who we are. About what it truly is you value in us. And unless you can demonstrate that - something you apparently dont even think to tell a bunch of strangers- , that you actually understand who we are and value it, you aint going near those pants, Im sorry

    If you go back to my previous posts, when I talk about INTPs, the *first* thing I did was talk about the qualities that I admire and find attractive in INTPs. Why I respect them, look up to them and enjoy their company. I do not even mention the fact that their social skills often need work, coz you know what? To me, that is something that I can work with and often actually find endearing, in a good way.

    Other than 'I wanna bed them coz they're smexy', I have yet to see the same from you guys. On the contrary, you've expressed that you clearly do not understand ENFPs by sharing that you perceive them as air headed and incapable of discussing the topics *YOU* want to discuss. You've actualy *listed* the reasons as to why you are unlikely to respect their povs, the way they go about things or consider them your equals in a relationship.

    And you expect to be let into our beds *WHY* exactly?

    ...Oh right, coz YOU feel like it.

    My bad.



    Edit:

    Ps: you've just seen Fi-logic in action. The actions, reasoning and wishes expressed by the INTPs in this thread do not add up from an Fi logic pov, at least not with the data provided thus far. Too many gaps, too many inconsistencies and potentially too little awareness as to what constitutes a good mate for your needs in terms of a long-term relationship. So either you are bs-ing about being serious in wanting an enfp partner for a relationship (and you do really just wanna sleep with us and move on), or you still have a long way to go in figuring out what makes a relationship work. Whatever the reason, at this point and in my books, you're too big of a risk to invest in emotionally- at the very least until those questions are answered and the inconsistencies have been smoothed out.
    That's a lot of hostility. My viewpoints have been misunderstood. I didn't say that all ENFPs are airheads. Someone mentioned that they give that perception, and I agreed the some do, and wondered why.

    If that's Fi-logic, it just concluded that I'm an idiot who disrespects ENFPs as airheads, but still wants to get with them. Apparently, I also make no effort to understand them and just try to force them into my straitjackect definition of intelligence.

    Perhaps you could ask me to clarify a point you didn't understand instead of attacking me?

    I've answered your question above.

  3. #63
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhus View Post
    I'd prefer the attentions of ENFx women, preferably ENFP women, because I'm attracted to Extroverted Intuitives. I'm excitable, and playful and prefer a mate with whom I can think and play. I'm repelled by SJ tendencies toward rules, control, social role enforcement, and general failure of critical thinking. I'm an INTP but part of me is very ENFP, and that attracts me to ENFP women.

    ENFPs are socially skilled, they're expressive in a way that draws me to them. In my experience with my ENFP friends, we tend to have a strong mindmate connection that I cannot express, but there are threads on this: ENFP and INTP Magnetic Pull?

    But I'm not attracted to any and all ENFP women. They're not interchangeable. I have some F and I need someone with a bit of T in them so that we can understand each other.



    That's a lot of hostility. My viewpoints have been misunderstood. I didn't say that all ENFPs are airheads. Someone mentioned that they give that perception, and I agreed the some do, and wondered why.

    If that's Fi-logic, it just concluded that I'm an idiot who disrespects ENFPs as airheads, but still wants to get with them. Apparently, I also make no effort to understand them and just try to force them into my straitjackect definition of intelligence.

    Perhaps you could ask me to clarify a point you didn't understand instead of attacking me?

    I've answered your question above.
    Yes, you did. And that is already a lot more workable. You asked about Fi. I decided to show you how it works. You'll also notice that the rant is not addressed at you personally past the first sentence. It is addressed in general at INTPs who display the first indicator (red flags) of a pattern of disrespecting other peoples povs whether that includes you or not, which i cannot determine definitively yet due to lack of data. But the first indicator did create distrust on that.

    The distrust caused by the (fi)logic gaps in the data you offered in your actions, your thoughts and your responses. Normally, I'd wait your out, till those gaps were filled in. I decided against it, as the situation you asked about asks for a split judgement on the part of the ENFP, usually. That is, evaluating a guy from one or a few interactions for a potential mate. You asked what it would take to get further with them. I just showed you what is likely to go through their head when you raise a red flag like that. Your perception of them being airheads and unable to contribute to your topics is likely to register as a really big red flag. And most won't take the time and energy to dig past that to see if that is truly how you perceive them, they'll just dismiss you based on the vibe you re giving them

    If I were to meet you one on one, without any pressure, for instance in a social group I'd notice this about you and file it away. Then I'd observe you and potentially ask you questions at times that it seemed...normal to ask them in a conversation, in order to extract further information as to your actual perception of the world and see if I can make sense of why you think the way you do. Right now there are still several alternatives that I'm looking at, that I do not have an answer to yet. That is how I go about evaluating a potential mate. Especially one that gives me the distinct feeling that he looks down on me, for whatever reason. I will substantiate that hunch if possible and at the same time give you the benefit of the doubt if I can..but if Im forced to make a decision at that point, it will be to rule against you, based on the information I have so far. As much as I know Im highly likely to be wrong. If, like now, I am given the time to actually figure out what is behind my perception of yours, I'm much more likely to understand where you are coming from.

    Considering your calm attitude despite this 'hostility', your drive to continue figuring this out, and your usage of the word 'seems' in several instances, I'd guess this thread is to gather data on a mission you wish to complete. You being INTP and a 5 substantiates this behavior. So, it is likely that you are aware that you need more information on how an ENFP sees the world, and it is also highly likely that once you have that information and expand your...awareness I guess, you are unlikely to continue to perceive them as airheads but actually appreciate them for how different they are from you, and find the reasons as to why it is that they of all people attract you. Some of this is already present in the above quote. And that is a reassuring thought

    There are those, however, who seek out others without doing this type of research. Who just want to enjoy the way they feel when they are around those people, much like you would a pet. Who are unable to detach enough from their own pov to value another persons pov. And who dont bother to figure out what the other person is all about, as long as they keep giving them 'good' vibes.

    They lack the awareness that that is not what a relationship is all about, and their disrespect of the other persons pov, of the other person's strengths beyond those 'good vibes' is quite toxic in a relationship. In INTPs, this often seems to manifest in their feeling superiority wrt intelligence and justification in their put-downs, especially when it is coupled with inexperience in relationships and the more social aspect of the world. And while they too are just on their journey to figure things out and not intentionally harmful, they can be highly unsuitable mates at that point in time

    In short: I meant for you to see the inner workings of Fi (granted, at its most crude, gut-instinct level) while also pointing to a potential big problem for you in your ENFP hunting, as well as push your buttons to determine your intentions before I gave you any ammo to go hunt with.

    I hope that clarifies my actions.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  4. #64
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhus View Post
    Perhaps they do feel threatened. The last one did I think. But not all ENFPs are alike. 7 wing ENFPs seem almost ESFP. They're not very attracted to intelligence. I've met many ENFPs but few were capable of analytical thought like INTPs. Perhaps its because they're not INTPs?
    Perhaps you could ask me to clarify a point you didn't understand instead of...?
    Asking you to clarify stuff doesn't appear to... Okay...I'll give it another shot.


    Dear Typhus,

    I'm seeking clarification on the above quote. Please provide that for me...and for all of us really.
    Thank you in advance.

    Sincerely, Starry

  5. #65

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    It seems a frustrating route. Why don't you ask a prostitute to take the mbti?

    Enfp like people puzzles, be a people puzzle. Enigmatic.
    Being enigmatic is like being cool though, if you try, you can't. So I guess you are kind of screwed...

    just not by an enfp.

  6. #66
    Junior Member Typhus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Asking you to clarify stuff doesn't appear to... Okay...I'll give it another shot.


    Dear Typhus,

    I'm seeking clarification on the above quote. Please provide that for me...and for all of us really.
    Thank you in advance.

    Sincerely, Starry
    I didn't see this question. There were a lot of accusatory posts!

    Don't take it personally because your a 7 wing. I have had 7 wing ENFP friends before, but I'll give one example. One friend loved to read about history and economics and other stuff but believed horoscopes to be valid scientific tools. In short, she was quite intelligent but believed in things that made no sense. As an INTP, I'd reject half the things she believed because they were objectively false. Despite her intelligence, she didn't take any rational path to knowledge.

    Horoscopes are easy to test. Take a sample of one thousand people and sort their personalities by birth date and check for a pattern. This has been done and there are heat maps showing no correlation between birth date and personality. Predictions have also been tracked with no strong correlation with reality This evidence she would completely dismiss. This is a sample size of only one, but the few other 7s I knew were like this. Some 2/3(?) wing ENFPs I knew were also no good at thinking stuff through.

    I really don't understand the reaction. INTPs are kind of social outcasts by nature. That's how a lot of us are. As thinking is not one of the top cognitive functions of ENFPs, wouldn't there be some ENFPs who are not intelligent or rational out there? Do you think I'm saying that all ENFPs are dumb?

  7. #67
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhus View Post
    I didn't see this question. There were a lot of accusatory posts!
    Thank you so much Typhus for responding. Yah, if you've pissed off a small handful of ENFPs...give yourself a pat on the back because it is quite a feat! haha.

    You have much to learn about MBTI, enneagram and the ENFP type grasshopper. And I'm willing to help.

    But first, I must go smoke some crack make some coffee...and I will return (I honestly wasn't sure if you were going to respond so I was unprepared haha).

  8. #68
    Junior Member Typhus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Thank you so much Typhus for responding. Yah, if you've pissed off a small handful of ENFPs...give yourself a pat on the back because it is quite a feat! haha.
    I have a talent for doing this is RL too and I have no idea why. I'm not trying to be offensive and I try to be receptive and open-minded.

    ENFPs misinterpret what I say and drama follows. That's why I'm here.

  9. #69
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^ Yeah... Fi/Ti can be a bitch...

    Quote Originally Posted by Typhus View Post
    If that's Fi-logic, it just concluded that I'm an idiot who disrespects ENFPs as airheads, but still wants to get with them. Apparently, I also make no effort to understand them and just try to force them into my straitjackect definition of intelligence.
    If this is the way you feel about my post, too, it's a misunderstanding. I do agree with Amargith that I feel like through the thread there have been multiple references to negative interpretation of ENFPs, and not as much positive interpretation, and that is confusing to Fi - it's like sending mixed signals to us.

    No one has concluded that you're an idiot, but Ne-Fi looks for implications that suggest values. So some phrases that can come off as offensive are: "They're not very attracted to intelligence" - it seems to imply that we don't value intelligence. "I've met many ENFPs but few were capable of analytical thought like INTPs" - seems to imply that we lack capacity in comparison to INTPs. "A conversation about Kant doesn't seem like its going to happen" - seems to imply that we aren't interested or capable of philosophical discussion.

    I think that's the sort of Ti-Fi disconnect that occurs. Ti suggests reasons without considering value implication, while Fi looks at value implication before reason. An INTP puts reasonable, rational ideas out there, which are airtight logically, but doesn't tend to check for implied value meaning, an ENFP picks up on the potential implications first and foremost, the ENFP wonders why the INTP would say a mean thing like that, launches counterattack, and then the INTP wonders why the ENFP is being so hostile.

  10. #70
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    No one has concluded that you're an idiot, but Ne-Fi looks for implications that suggest values. So some phrases that can come off as offensive are: "They're not very attracted to intelligence" - it seems to imply that we don't value intelligence. "I've met many ENFPs but few were capable of analytical thought like INTPs" - seems to imply that we lack capacity in comparison to INTPs. "A conversation about Kant doesn't seem like its going to happen" - seems to imply that we aren't interested or capable of philosophical discussion.

    I think that's the sort of Ti-Fi disconnect that occurs.
    As you would imagine I agree wholeheartedly with you and the beautiful @Amargith but is this really a Ti-Fi disconnect? 'Cause I'm willing to wager that regardless of how your functions line up...most people are probably not going to be all that 'enchanted' by someone that is constantly giving off 'you are clearly of below average intelligence' and 'I'm arrogant' vibes. Perhaps some do find this kind of thing appealing...but for most of us...yah no.

    I'm Ne>Ni>Fi>Ti... In other words, I don't have a problem with Ti. But I do have a problem with 'emotionally stunted intellectually arrogant' people.

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