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  1. #41
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    What's your point? We're not talking about SJs right now. His vibe with them is irrelevant.
    I meant it less on a type level and more as a female-in-general observation. Most girls, regardless of type, can pick up on that vibe and aren't exactly dying to be the object of it.

    So, my point was that it gave strength to the guess that part of the problem could be that he's giving off desperate vibes with ENFPs. Because if he's not interested in SJs he wouldn't be giving off such vibes and that could explain why they aren't "scared away".
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  2. #42
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    She means to say that with SJs he is probably confident instead of 'desperate', making him more attractive to him, in comparison with enfps. Though Im not sure that that is truly the case. But it is one scenario.
    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    I meant it less on a type level and more as a female-in-general observation. Most girls, regardless of type, can pick up on that vibe and aren't exactly dying to be the object of it.

    So, my point was that it gave strength to the guess that part of the problem could be that he's giving off desperate vibes with ENFPs. Because if he's not interested in SJs he wouldn't be giving off such vibes and that could explain why they aren't "scared away".
    The subject at hand is fucking ENFP chicks. That being the case, why his behavior with any other kind of women would be a point of discussion is beyond me. I'm still failing to see how what I said was misconstrued, especially since you seem to actually be on the same page.
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  3. #43
    Junior Member Typhus's Avatar
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    Ladies, please restrain yourselves. No fighting over me!

    I hope I'm not giving out desperate vibes. If so, that needs work. Rather than analyze my past relationships and their failures, I'm looking to understand the causes of friction and misunderstanding between INTPs and ENFPs. So if INTPs and ENFPs and those who know of these types in relationships could step forward and tell us what they've learnt, I'd be grateful.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Most INTPs I know treat ExFPs like airheads. Even if they like them, it's more like "you're a cute & entertaining airhead". Perhaps not true for the OP, but just my observation IRL. ENFPs generally don't like that treatment, and ESFPs only tolerate it if they think it gives them an edge (my ESFP sis says she likes to be "underestimated" as a kind of advantage over people).

    I knew an ENFP who was obsessed with this mutual INTP friend of ours. He pretended not to like her when he kinda did, and most of his contemptuous attitude was towards her being kind of silly. Not in her humor, but just her general way. I think it amused him, but he was also annoyed at times by it. She pursued him relentlessly anyway, as infatuated ENFPs tend to do. Not sure how anyone could miss those signals...

    Oh yeeeaaah, I like design & bright colors, and I'm totally down for a conversation on Kant. IDk why people think an interest in fashion or aesthetics means shallow or not intellectually inclined....
    This is excellent. I'm attracted to ENFPs but a lot of them do register as airheads. I can't make sense of their logic. Whenever my programmer friend and I sit and discuss software, his gregarious ENFP girlfriend goes silent. I thought it was because she didn't like, know or want to learn about the subject, but I don't know. But I suspect the reason for her failure to join our cerebral activities will be insightful. Thoughts?

    I'm not saying that ENFPs who like aesthetics are shallow. But most of the ones who I met who do like aesthetics don't have much interest in abstract philosophical discussions. Even my female ENFP friend who majored in it in college was terrible at it. But our mutual ENFP male friend was interested and good at having those kind of conversations. Why? Individual differences? Enneagram differences? Perhaps ENFPs with a 5 wing are good at it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post


    There is more to Ne than banter and silly games, you silly silly boy

    Fine, lemme spell it out then. Instead of tearing them a new one for presenting you with a half-assed hypothesis when they discuss something with you, recognize it for the draft that it is, appreciate the fact that they wnat your input on it, and use that Ne of yours together with your Ti to fill the gaps and 'construct' something together, editing the first draft, plugging the holes and actually work together as a team. We dont present full hypotheses, we present ideas. Therefore they will *NEVER* be up to the standard you would be using before presenting your own personal hypotheses. This is also what you *like* about us...that we are spontaneous and bubbly and toss out the weirdest shit first

    So don't punish us for it. Restrain that inner critic of yours and appreciate the invite to work on the project at brainstorming level, bouncing ideas off of each other. And yes..value that Fi input, if you can. We try to do the same with your foreign feeling Ti. I know Fi looks really like its build on air castles, but it most certainly has value and its own logic. So suspend your logical naysaying and watch it work its magic
    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    It is coz ENFPs tend to soundboard things off of others to fill in their Fi and finetune it. INFPs are a lot more confident in their Fi than we are as we re Ne-dom and looking at everything from every angle. As a Ti-dom..you re kinda crushing them in debate coz it often aint a debate to us, it is an exchange on a first draft presented and a way to work on a project together. And if not, you'll get Te-clobbered, don't worry

    Still does not answer my question though. Why go ENFP-fishing at all?
    I fish for ENFPs because I tend to be attracted to them. As an INTP, I conduct analysis of my preferred partners. Though I'm not expert at it, I've known about MBTI for a long time and got many of my friends to take the test. I know the vibes that ENFPs/ENFxs give off, I can recognize 4 or 5 wings in a crowd very quickly because they tune up with me in a way that few people do.

    So INTPs do Ti-Ne and ENFPs Fi-Ne? How is each side's process perceived by the other? And how do I make sense of Ne-Fi? What is Fi? It feels weird to me. How does its logic work?

  4. #44
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I just wanted to say @Amargith is a genius.
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  5. #45
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhus View Post
    This is excellent. I'm attracted to ENFPs but a lot of them do register as airheads. I can't make sense of their logic. Whenever my programmer friend and I sit and discuss software, his gregarious ENFP girlfriend goes silent. I thought it was because she didn't like, know or want to learn about the subject, but I don't know. But I suspect the reason for her failure to join our cerebral activities will be insightful. Thoughts?

    I'm not saying that ENFPs who like aesthetics are shallow. But most of the ones who I met who do like aesthetics don't have much interest in abstract philosophical discussions. Even my female ENFP friend who majored in it in college was terrible at it. But our mutual ENFP male friend was interested and good at having those kind of conversations. Why? Individual differences? Enneagram differences? Perhaps ENFPs with a 5 wing are good at it?
    You must know how fickle Ne is. What interests the NP can be very arbitrary. What doesn't interest the NP can be cooly dismissed and ignored. An ENFP may have many intellectual interests, but not care a whit about software (which is more nerdy than intellectual). Generally, intellectual areas which will appeal to an NF have some connection to people and/or are very imaginative in nature. The more technical or mechanical it is, the less interest there may be. If it's philosophical or whimsical, then there may be more appeal. It's sort of a matter of dryness. Or if someone doesn't know a lot about something, then they may just listen & learn too. I suppose lack of active listening can indicate disinterest though.

    Lastly, you are also quite sure you're not dealing with some ESFJs? They have the same interaction style & use tertiary Ne which often pops up as a random quality to conversation. Also, they tend to adapt to current social ideals, and ENFP is something of a modern ideal for a female personality. A big marker will be a tendency to not like the theoretical or abstract at all or not nearly to the degree the average NF will like it.


    So INTPs do Ti-Ne and ENFPs Fi-Ne? How is each side's process perceived by the other? And how do I make sense of Ne-Fi? What is Fi? It feels weird to me. How does its logic work?
    Fi is about understanding human nature via dissecting the self & using it as a basis for determining the fundamental value of things. So there's a focus on what is important, meaningful, significant, etc, in relation to the human condition.

    It's making sense of stuff that has nothing to do with strict logic. There IS something like a structure or order to human emotional nature, and we like to have a deep grasp of it because it aids in knowing what's really important in life for yourself & other individuals (and individual needs will vary a lot).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  6. #46
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhus View Post
    I think the last ENFP I dated briefly thought I was judgemental/controlling because I told her playfully that she had to do something to make up for flaking out on something she said she'd do. I said it playfully, but over text, so I think she thought I was being controlling. I scared another one away.
    I'm not convinced the individual described above is an ENFP (looking forward to your answer regarding how you know all these women are, in fact, ENFP)...but in the off chance she is...

    This would be similar to her requiring you to 'do something to make it up' every time you silence an entire room with an awkward or inappropriate comment.

    @OrangeAppled when I first saw this thread I was without a keyboard and had not yet had enough coffee. I subsequently felt a little helpless ha. And when I noticed you were also online I was like...'she would know what to say' and almost called you to the thread but didn't since...because...well...there's enough INFP threads around that need responding to. But then you showed up...and I just wanted to say I appreciate the comments very much.

    I worked for a large institution that was involved in a scandal which instantly made the national news. And in response to this approx. 150 of us were randomly selected to participate in a multiple session workshop based on MBTI. <--So, as would be imagined, we were all administered the full length Myers Briggs (including a couple of short inventories although I don't remember what those were)...and were briefly interviewed by the professionals there to facilitate the entire thing. There were 6 ENFPs total at the end of all of this. And while I will say we were definitely the coolest group of them all haha ...no one was anything like this 'airheaded, bimbo, attention whore, unintelligent, self-centered ENFP' that I only became familiar with after having joined a few personality forums. Not saying they don't exist but all of them? All ENFPs fit this profile?



    Che was an ENFP. I see many people try to explain the differences they see in Che and, I guess, all the airheaded girls (?)...by typing him as e8 but that's bs. Che was your average ENFP e7 sx. Yet in all this time...I've never seen someone come onto this forum with a 'Che like' description of an ENFP.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I'm not convinced the individual described above is an ENFP (looking forward to your answer regarding how you know all these women are, in fact, ENFP)...but in the off chance she is...

    This would be similar to her requiring you to 'do something to make it up' every time you silence an entire room with an awkward or inappropriate comment.

    @OrangeAppled when I first saw this thread I was without a keyboard and had not yet had enough coffee. I subsequently felt a little helpless ha. And when I noticed you were also online I was like...'she would know what to say' and almost called you to the thread but didn't since...because...well...there's enough INFP threads around that need responding to. But then you showed up...and I just wanted to say I appreciate the comments very much.

    I worked for a large institution that was involved in a scandal which instantly made the national news. And in response to this approx. 150 of us were randomly selected to participate in a multiple session workshop based on MBTI. <--So, as would be imagined, we were all administered the full length Myers Briggs (including a couple of short inventories although I don't remember what those were)...and were briefly interviewed by the professionals there to facilitate the entire thing. There were 6 ENFPs total at the end of all of this. And while I will say we were definitely the coolest group of them all haha ...no one was anything like this 'airheaded, bimbo, attention whore, unintelligent, self-centered ENFP' that I only became familiar with after having joined a few personality forums. Not saying they don't exist but all of them? All ENFPs fit this profile?



    Che was an ENFP. I see many people try to explain the differences they see in Che and, I guess, all the airheaded girls (?)...by typing him as e8 but that's bs. Che was your average ENFP e7 sx. Yet in all this time...I've never seen someone come onto this forum with a 'Che like' description of an ENFP.
    Airheaded is all in perception, I'm starting to think. I was unimpressed to see the number of people who called me "stupid" for getting banned last time (yeah okay I made the Dean's list every semester in college and am self-employed and have done just about everything I've said I'm going to do in life IN REAL LIFE...and own certain debates on forums? ...because I'm "stupid") ...one member here once said that my As in college said nothing about my critical thinking skills, yet the simple fact remains that IRL sheerly through life experience (and not formal education or degrees) I can spot a con artist from a distance, the kind of person that would charm and rob a kinder person blind doesn't even make it past my 'fuckface' initial scanning, no matter how superficially "nice" or "cool" they seem on the surface. I have great instincts for jerks because of life experience, and I recently spotted a con artist, that a licensed drug counselor confirmed suspiciously has the "body language of a severe drug addict." Meanwhile, a woman (I'm sorry but I do) I suspect of being an ENFP said "oh I'm such a nice diplomatic person, I had no idea."

    So this is why some people might see ENFPs as "dumb" ...they can be brilliant, but the person in question couldn't even spot someone who will probably wreck shit if she lets them, and this woman is about 60. I'm 30 years younger, and can easily spot it through life experience, and the 60 year old theoretically *should* have more smarts about this thing, but as an ENFP, she probably emphasizes kindness and non-judgment over things like tangible life experience and common sense. I think the drug counselor who "officially" confirmed my instincts about the con artist in question is some kind of ESxJ.

    But apparently some people think *I'm* dumb.

    There are so many levels of "stupid" and trust me I have met TRULY STUPID PEOPLE.

    Most average people though just judge one another by their own standards, all of them having about the same amount of intelligence (give or take) but are just smart in different ways.

    That all being said, I wonder if @Typhus is putting ENFPs off with his sense of intellectual superiority. Someone who can smell that they think you think you're better than them or smarter than them will sometimes avoid you and lose any sense of attraction. Especially if it's an overweening, "nerdy" kind of "welp I'm smarter than anyone, case closed."

    Also, the OP might be severely overweight, poorly groomed or something.

    But then again I doubt that since he says he has SJs crawling over him; SJs love good grooming. ESFJ ex said he wouldn't have dated me if I wasn't the kind of girls who painted my toe nails, and don't get me started on the exacting standards ISTJ gave me about panty patterns (solid, dark colors only) and the overt comments he made about things like hair style and weight.

    So it must be his personality. I can't imagine real SJs crawling over some ill-groomed slob who didn't meet conventional societal standards, unless he was a childhood sweetheart or trusted family friend.

  8. #48
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Yeah, if a buttload of other types of girls also aren't letting you in, it may not be a type thing. As in, it's not a type thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Nobody finds desperate attractive. You're probably giving off icky, needy vibes and scaring away the little ENFP birds.
    Like others on this thread, I'm wondering why the SJs supposedly flock to him... Maybe they're looking for someone to fix? Or someone to dominate?

    Edit: @digesthisickness might be right about this. I, for one, have an irritating tendency to be much more attracted to guys who already have girlfriends, because 1) I see their real personality and sense of humor right off the bat, and 2) they're much more confident. A lot of the behavior that guys put on in an attempt to get girls to like them, really turns me off. Especially since a lot of that behavior comes from an assumption that all girls want to be waited on, and all girls want guys to come across as being almost too cool for them (regardless of whether they are or not).
    Quote Originally Posted by Typhus View Post
    I think the last ENFP I dated briefly thought I was judgemental/controlling because I told her playfully that she had to do something to make up for flaking out on something she said she'd do. I said it playfully, but over text, so I think she thought I was being controlling. I scared another one away.
    I think INTx = inconveniently deadpan. Even in person. So I can see via text being even worse.

    (My INTJ friend and I have a recurring joke about her troll face being the same as her normal face. And neither of us is sure of whether the pros outweigh the cons, regarding that, or vice versa.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Typhus View Post
    I'm not familiar with cognitive functions like Ti. Google tells me that Ti is not in the top four dominant traits of ENFP, so does it scare ENFPs?
    I don't think it scares them, as much as it pisses them off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Typhus View Post
    No, I have SJ women after me. I don't get into relationships with them because I'm attracted almost exclusively to ENFP females.
    Statements like this bug me... Maybe it would bug me less if you translated it into non-MBTI terms.

    What is it about these "ENFP" girls that you find appealing, that supposedly no other girls have?
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Joke fail.

    Sounded like you implied that she was supposed to put out to compensate.

    I recall some similar fuck ups in past interactions with ENFPs. It's like they naturally bait me to say something insensitive. One once told me that she wanted to adopt a girl because she empathized with the situation of being abandoned by a parent. I said something like " that's not gonna change the world much".

    Another ENFP stopped replying to my messages right after I stopped talking about her for a small moment to talk about my career goals.


    We tend to use some typology lingo here, but stick around and you'll eventually learn a lot.


    Ime, yes. I'd suggest you to forget ENFPs and go for ENFJs instead - they'll more readily appreciate an impersonal feedback (INTP specialty) without freaking out. They are rarer online though.
    I'm just curious why you think the person in question isn't an ESFP or ESFJ. An SF would be very likely to see a simple act of adopting one child being doing something to change the world. Ne is more likely to be the one who has some master plan. Or Ni I guess...like Hitler.

    SFs are likely to think they can change the world one person at a time.

    Taking care of aging parents, adopting unwanted children, raising grandchildren, carrying girls' heavy groceries, that's the forte of sensors, bro, not ENFPs.

  10. #50
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I'm just curious why you think the person in question isn't an ESFP or ESFJ. An SF would be very likely to see a simple act of adopting one child being doing something to change the world. Ne is more likely to be the one who has some master plan. Or Ni I guess...like Hitler.

    SFs are likely to think they can change the world one person at a time.

    Taking care of aging parents, adopting unwanted children, raising grandchildren, carrying girls' heavy groceries, that's the forte of sensors, bro, not ENFPs.
    I disagree with the bolded, from experience with both an ENTJ and an ENFP -- the ENFP is my best friend and the ENTJ is her mother, and they're both Enneagram 2. So I'm gonna say that if this is type-related at all (which it might not be), then it's more Enneagram than MBTI.

    I'm a bit confused with @Rasofy's reaction, though. It doesn't sound like she ever implied that she wanted to change the world... She said that "she wanted to adopt a girl because she empathized with the situation of being abandoned by a parent" -- which is not about changing the world*, as much as it is trying to help an individual child to not go through what you went through. It's out of empathy, and out of wanting to help people.

    *I mean, it could be, but why assume?
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