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  1. #101
    Junior Member Typhus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Lovely. First we get trashed by the Ti-doms about Fi, now the Ni-doms ride in to finish our Ne. You gotto wonder what the hell it is INTJs and INTPs really see in us, considering their interest in our breed. All we need is for ISTPs to come in here and finish the job. Only IxTxs could decide to both try and get in your pants while criticising everything about you that is different about you from them. Why is it you boys don't just date each other? Problem solved


    I know you were joking here, but I think you were only half-joking. You ENFPs really seem to take comments rather personally. I was wondering out loud, without intending to be rude or hurtful.

    What I meant to say: I love ENFPs, but I don't undertand them! They do all these weird, awesome things and... what yes, now that you mention it some of them do come off as airheaded, I wonder why that -

    *Typhus is set on fire and lowered into a pit of horny crabs*


    So let's start over. I'm here to figure you weird creatures out. Don't think I'm here to troll. But if you believe in weird things (astrology, homeopathy etc.), I won't automatically condemn you for it, but I expect you will be providing me proof to support this claim.

  2. #102
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhus View Post
    I know you were joking here, but I think you were only half-joking. You ENFPs really seem to take comments rather personally. I was wondering out loud, without intending to be rude or hurtful.

    What I meant to say: I love ENFPs, but I don't undertand them! They do all these weird, awesome things and... what yes, now that you mention it some of them do come off as airheaded, I wonder why that -

    *Typhus is set on fire and lowered into a pit of horny crabs*


    So let's start over. I'm here to figure you weird creatures out. Don't think I'm here to troll. But if you believe in weird things (astrology, homeopathy etc.), I won't automatically condemn you for it, but I expect you will be providing me proof to support this claim.
    With him Im joking because I know Freeeekyyy, I have more of a background of information on him and I know what he meant when he said what he said. With you, unfortunately, all I have to go on atm is this thread. On top of that, you were displaying signs of a typical problem that ENFPs tend to have with IxTxs, and you asked what Fi was about, so I decided to give you the insider perspective. In my later posts, I did acknowledge that from your reactions, I could tell you don't mean to look down on us, and that I do appreciate.

    That said - your Ti is still fighting with our Fi.

    Your problem lies in the bolded. Unlike you, we do not approach things with natural scepticism. We do not ask critical questions first, nor do we take things apart. We see the options, the marvellous options if Astrology happens to be true (lets stick with that option). Does that mean we believe in it? Hell no, but we sure as hell are going to get excited in tinkering with it, learning all the ins and outs, what it means and gaining an oversight of what we can do with it and how it supposedly works. We *NEED* to be free to do that. It is how we investigate the world and how our creativity works. And creativity gets strangled when it gets judged, needs to be validated, gets critiqued in its early stages.

    Then there is the second problem. You demanding and expecting shit hits our Fi.
    Fi tends to believe in 'as long as I dont harm anyone, I can do what I want.' It also tends to value freedom of opinion and letting people be who *they* are, and not demanding them to be who you expect them to be.

    ... your Ti judges, critiques, expects and demands in a way that we a) cannot deliver b) arent suited to live up to and c) frankly...wouldnt even deliver on if we could, just to spite you for violating the things that make us who we are and what we treasure while telling us you supposedly like and respect who we are. => this is illogical and inconsistent, thus suspicious in Fi-logic. These factors do not add up. These are emotional gaps and inconsistencies that show up in a liar or someone who isn't aware that their pov isn't the pov of others in the world.

    Now I'm gambling on the fact that you are in fact becoming aware that people look differently at the world, and that you are trying to learn *how* that works, hence I tried to explain to you again where we differ from you.

    And now, Im waiting to see if you will actually *DO* something with that information.

    While I can appreciate your Ti preference of needing logical proof and I understand that that is how you see the world (which is similar to how I was joking with Freeeekyyy, coz Ive already done my research on how he works and the fact that he means well), in a hypothetical world where I'm the ENFP you want to get with, you need to do the same for me to consider you as a partner. As a friend, I can probably flex and understand you re stil learning this.

    Concretely, this means that if I were to actually date you and our lives would collide, you would get to demand me backing up shit logically (and Id hope youd give me the benefit of the doubt and help me with this as I suck at it) that affects *us* as a couple and our lives together.

    HOWEVER. Stuff like astrology is none of your business, unless I want you to take part in it. Homeopathy and me taking it is NONE of your business, unless Im feeding it to you. If I want to believe they work, then it would be in your best interest for your sex life to stfu. At the very least. At best, Id enjoy you actually showing some respect for how I work and perhaps giving me the benefit of the doubt in trusting that maybe, I see something you don't in the things you have trouble not being critical of. Similarly, I'd understand that you don't live up to my Fi standards, that you live by different rules.

    This is us as a couple.

    As a friend, i'll expect nothing from you. I don't do expectations and I try to accept people for who they are, and I'll flex if necessary. I don't have an actual beef with you in general. In fact, I think you're rather interesting. And I could see myself befriending you. That said...

    You're not dating/bed material though. Not at this point.

    Im going to say this again - you might want to check out NFJs.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  3. #103
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Maybe because we love your flaws?

    (See how flattering INTPs can be?)
    Uh huh. Cute, but also a Fi-fallacy (coins a new term )

    Loving our flaws by critiquing the crap out of them does not compute. There would be more d'awwws and goo-goo eyed looks instead

    This is more consistent with a guy ignoring the things that bug him (and whining about them later) coz he is a bit one-track-minded

    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  4. #104
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Uh huh. Cute, but also a Fi-fallacy
    You've passed the test!

    (coins a new term )
    Nice.

    Loving our flaws by critiquing the crap out of them does not compute. There would be more d'awwws and goo-goo eyed looks instead
    Makes sense.

    This is more consistent with a guy ignoring the things that bug him (and whining about them later) coz he is a bit one-track-minded



    I feel like you ENFPs want some compliments, but it's so hard to make them sound genuine enough for your standards that I usually don't even try.

    On second thought, that statement could be deconstructed as a compliment of sorts.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  5. #105
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    For my part, I'm not after compliments. I'd just like to be able to me around you guys and not have you invalidate everything that comes out of my mouth or everything that I do

    I find it difficult to believe that you are romantically interested in someone whose modus operandi bugs you that much.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  6. #106
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhus View Post
    *Typhus is set on fire and lowered into a pit of horny crabs*
    wow.

    Typhus, I do not get the sense anyone here is doubting your sincerity in any way. And your desire to begin again certainly reinforces this notion that your intentions in this endeavor are pure. What is important for you to understand is that the response here is a function of your lack of proficiency in interpersonal communication. In other words, if you do not wish for an ENFP, or anyone for that matter, to take your comments personally then it is imperative you state them in a way that is not personal. Do you see?

    You must know that words like 'airheaded' and 'weird' are negatively charged right? I don't know if it would be helpful for you to reference science and/or the scientific method in this instance but a survey or study that contained words like these would be immediately discredited and thrown-out because the language is highly subjective and known to skew results. <--This is merely what is happening to you here.

    When someone uses language in this way it is a difficult thing to determine whether it is a result of laziness or prejudice. Your future success in the formulation of relationships, especially romantic partnerships, will be dependent on your acceptance of the fact that most people will error on the side of caution and will remove themselves from your company.

    So when you say 'many ENFPs seem airheaded' <--I know you can explain that objectively. I know you can. So start doing it. And then you may start to see the responses you came here for.

  7. #107
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Basically, typhus, you seem to have a problem a lot of INTPs have. I don't know how true this actually is, but you at least give the impression of trying too hard. Quit trying to fit into a certain social box and just be real. I'm not sure I know why you specifically target ENFPs though anyway. Just wait until you meet somebody you like, and then whatever type she happens to be, treat her accordingly. Maybe she's an ENFP, maybe not. And if it's just to understand and "prepare" yourself, then I think you're theoretically better fit with an ENTJ or ENFJ.
    You lose.

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  8. #108
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Basically, typhus, you seem to have a problem a lot of INTPs have. I don't know how true this actually is, but you at least give the impression of trying too hard. Quit trying to fit into a certain social box and just be real. I'm not sure I know why you specifically target ENFPs though anyway. Just wait until you meet somebody you like, and then whatever type she happens to be, treat her accordingly. Maybe she's an ENFP, maybe not. And if it's just to understand and "prepare" yourself, then I think you're theoretically better fit with an ENTJ or ENFJ.
    freeekkyyy, what does 'trying too hard' mean to you? I guess I've never understood this phrase. Like, I can't even imagine being attracted to someone that wasn't 'trying too hard'. Is this advice meant to prevent Typhus from say...making a fool of himself in front of an individual or group? That it would be better for him to stay just as he is in order to save him from a little embarrassment? I am extraordinarily forgiving when it comes to the (temporary) embarrassments that may accompany 'trying too hard' (honestly, 'trying to hard' may just register with me as 'relatively passive behavior' because I constantly have a million things on my mind)... but find that absence of *life* in a person boring and unappealing. I mean, I'm struggling right now to put what I feel into words and I believe it's because I'm quite stagnated right now myself. I am uncomfortable with the thought that my own words betray the 3 or so people that may read this. But choosing to not 'try too hard' as a way of life...it seems unimaginable to me. It's possible this is an instinctual variant thing. Or perhaps these values are merely intensified in me by that pathway. Because I do feel a great deal of ENFPs want to be partnered with someone that is always imagining a better tomorrow. Which, of course, can only be obtained by way of a little 'trying too hard' and a gazillion embarrassments.

    If Typhus returns I will have seen enough of him to say that...I admire his tenacity.

    Another thing I don't quite understand is this notion that the solution to Typhus' relationship challenges is not self-improvement but rather 'find yourself an ENxJ.' @Rasofy provided this same cure and I want to hear more about it. I realize my mother (ENFJ) and my sister (INFJ/eNFJ) may not be the common expression of this type... But I don't even want to know what would happen to Typhus if he even *thought* (he wouldn't even need to say it out loud...he wouldn't even need to complete the thought for that matter...merely forming the thought would be enough)... one of them were an airhead or weird or...7 wing.

  9. #109
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Another thing I don't quite understand is this notion that the solution to Typhus' relationship challenges is not self-improvement but rather 'find yourself an ENxJ.' @Rasofy provided this same cure and I want to hear more about it.
    A while ago I read a beautiful "motivational poster" about mbti types in love, and the INTP one was "loving you is easy", which I think applies here. From my subjective perspective, ENFJs seem overall much easier to deal with, probably because their feelings make more immediate sense to me and also because their emotions are overall more controlled and smooth.

    I realize my mother (ENFJ) and my sister (INFJ/eNFJ) may not be the common expression of this type... But I don't even want to know what would happen to Typhus if he even *thought* (he wouldn't even need to say it out loud...he wouldn't even need to complete the thought for that matter...merely forming the thought would be enough)... one of them were an airhead or weird or...7 wing.
    Something to think about.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  10. #110
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    A while ago I read a beautiful "motivational poster" about mbti types in love, and the INTP one was "loving you is easy", which I think applies here. From my subjective perspective, ENFJs seem overall much easier to deal with, probably because their feelings make more immediate sense to me and also because their emotions are overall more controlled and smooth.
    I sat here for a really long time trying to figure out if I agreed or disagreed with the bolded. It's a really difficult call for me to make because ENFJs so phenomenal at completely controlling every aspect of any environment without you even knowing they are doing it...to be able to have that luxury. Whereas ENFPs tend to react more immediately because we don't want to deal with having to orchestrate anything. We need you to stop what you are doing now so we can get back to the business of thinking about a lot of crazy shit. I have definitely seen...even the loveliest of ENFJs that don't belong to my family...completely lose their emotional minds when their efforts to synchronize the entire world fail.

    Still, I failed to synchronize my question. Perhaps there is some truth to these 'no matter how unlikeable and offensive I am to the majority of the world's population...I will *forever score* with >insert type<'...but I'm a bit skeptical. Even if there is in fact a substantial decrease in the number of misunderstandings...there will still be misunderstandings. Do you feel an average ENxJ would look past the comments and suggestions that appear in this thread if they were made in reference to them? I just think it is so dangerous to assign the blame to the other person's type...and wanted to see if you felt the same.

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