User Tag List

First 1018192021 Last

Results 191 to 200 of 203

Thread: INFP vs INFJ

  1. #191
    Senior Member hazelsees's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    lol
    Suddenly I feel like a horse in a race. I've considered other types and score high on both Fi and Ne, so it's okay if I'm not in the top 10. I'm not very quintessential "J".
    Being quintessential anything seems...boring. Just joking. But do you ever feel like you're not any type at all? When I read about the functions or even most type descriptions of INFJ, I'm know that I am one.
    Then I read posts from other INFJs...and I'm not sure. OR especially read about the bad experiences people have with INFJs and...although I have my many flaws, the bad behaviors of Everyone's ex do not seem familiar at all.

  2. #192
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hazelsees View Post
    Being quintessential anything seems...boring. Just joking. But do you ever feel like you're not any type at all? When I read about the functions or even most type descriptions of INFJ, I'm know that I am one.
    Then I read posts from other INFJs...and I'm not sure. OR especially read about the bad experiences people have with INFJs and...although I have my many flaws, the bad behaviors of Everyone's ex do not seem familiar at all.
    I've thought I was an INTJ with an overgrown Fi, an especially organized INFP, and have more recently been wondering if I'm actually an ENFP droopified by fibromyalgia and environment. I often feel a little stressed out when people size me up based on "INFJ" category.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #193
    Senior Member hazelsees's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    No, that's not even it - it's like, Ni-Fe doesn't even see Fi truth, or assign it any value in the Ni model? And that feels really annoying, since we see INFJ individual truth and you don't see ours?

    Eh, I don't know. It's not like we see your construct - we are just happy for you that you do what you do. INFJ way of being gets to exist in Fi land? But INFP's have to get vocal that our way of being is just as valid, has value before it's recognized? Something like that.

    This is not cake. Just thinking out loud, brainstorming. Words are not necessarily perfectly chosen in this series of posts ...
    Hi PeaceBaby. Will you give a tangible example of this--something you've experienced in real life? I love theories, but in working with people I usually need examples. Most people do not have the patience for the fi, ni, fe, ti, etc talk...and how one accepts the other, but the other doesn't accept the one. They stop listening and write it all off as poop. So, it's good for me to have examples to give to them.
    And...as an INFJ, I generally do not try to make people fit in my model. I'm not even sure what my model is half the time. But...maybe I do and don't realize it, so if you could give some examples, I would so much appreciate it. Thank you.

  4. #194
    brainheart
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    In the quote, you mention comparing Fi to Fe. But this thread is about comparing INFPs to INFJs, which means we’re comparing Fi-Doms to Ni-Doms. It’s kind of like comparing apples to oranges.

    If people really want to make Fi/Fe comparisons, then ideally one should do that in a thread comparing Fi-Doms to Fe-Doms: IOW there should be a thread comparing INFPs to ENFJs or comparing ISFPs to ESFJs.

    Getting back to INFJs, *theoretically* one could try to ignore the Ni-Dom influence and isolate and study their Fe-Aux in order to make Fi/Fe comparisons. But *in practice* I think it’s very difficult to filter out and ignore that intense Ni-Dom polemical factor that’s so prominent in INFJs.

    I know I’m being nitpickey here, but I wanted to take this opportunity to reiterate a point I made in an earlier post about INFJs being predominantly Ni. You said that you’re not really into the cognitive functions, but I think this is an example of where it really makes a difference.
    Go ahead and be nit picky, I don't mind. I am fully aware that INFP vs INFJ is a difference between Fi-dom and Ni-dom. Perhaps I didn't explain this enough. I didn't think I isolated Fe. When I gave DFW's example of everyone driving in their cars to the grocery store, etc, it was meant to be an example of Ni+Fe. He has this vision in his head and it is a sort of unalterable vision, which is a very Ni thing, while his Fe kind of groups everyone in his example together: everyone in this room is going to live this life. While, as a Fi dom, I don't like being grouped together and being given a lesson in values, because my values are intrinsically there, thank you very much, and my Ne thinks of all of the other possible futures of the people in the room. (Again, my Fi probably sounds way more arrogant than I mean it to be, but there is something arrogant-sounding about Fi.)

    I think it's natural to compare Fi and Fe and Ni and Ne because then you are comparing the things that actually can be compared between the types: how the types judge and how the types perceive. As I said, in a lot of ways I get Ni- probably because Fi coupled with Ne can create something which sort of resembles Ni, and because it is also an introverted function- but the Fe aspect of the INFJ always throws me for a loop. And that's where I really see the difference. Of course there are flaws in this method of comparison because no one would ever mistake me for a Ne-dom, just as most INFJs would never be mistaken for Fe-doms. I think when it's the auxiliary function it's definitely toned down, like someone has turned the volume down on the function, but it's still the way that both INFJs and INFPs extrovert, so it's something you often 'see' more than the introverted function. For this reason, INFPs can seem a little more silly and scattered at times- but nothing to Ne-dom levels, while INFJs can seem a little more warm and socially correct- although obviously not to Fe-dom levels, as well.

    I have nothing against the cognitive functions, far from it. I enjoyed reading Jung's Personality Types and I find it to be a fascinating way of explaining aspects of a personality. I just have difficulty when things are written out in a dryly theoretical fashion. It's easier for me to read between the lines of literature or a speech or a life and grasp the cognitive function that way. Then I'm taking it in with my introverted judging function and figuring it out for myself.

  5. #195
    RDF
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Go ahead and be nit picky, I don't mind. I am fully aware that INFP vs INFJ is a difference between Fi-dom and Ni-dom. Perhaps I didn't explain this enough. I didn't think I isolated Fe. When I gave DFW's example of everyone driving in their cars to the grocery store, etc, it was meant to be an example of Ni+Fe. He has this vision in his head and it is a sort of unalterable vision, which is a very Ni thing, while his Fe kind of groups everyone in his example together: everyone in this room is going to live this life. While, as a Fi dom, I don't like being grouped together and being given a lesson in values, because my values are intrinsically there, thank you very much, and my Ne thinks of all of the other possible futures of the people in the room. (Again, my Fi probably sounds way more arrogant than I mean it to be, but there is something arrogant-sounding about Fi.)

    I think it's natural to compare Fi and Fe and Ni and Ne because then you are comparing the things that actually can be compared between the types: how the types judge and how the types perceive. As I said, in a lot of ways I get Ni- probably because Fi coupled with Ne can create something which sort of resembles Ni, and because it is also an introverted function- but the Fe aspect of the INFJ always throws me for a loop. And that's where I really see the difference. Of course there are flaws in this method of comparison because no one would ever mistake me for a Ne-dom, just as most INFJs would never be mistaken for Fe-doms. I think when it's the auxiliary function it's definitely toned down, like someone has turned the volume down on the function, but it's still the way that both INFJs and INFPs extrovert, so it's something you often 'see' more than the introverted function. For this reason, INFPs can seem a little more silly and scattered at times- but nothing to Ne-dom levels, while INFJs can seem a little more warm and socially correct- although obviously not to Fe-dom levels, as well.

    I have nothing against the cognitive functions, far from it. I enjoyed reading Jung's Personality Types and I find it to be a fascinating way of explaining aspects of a personality. I just have difficulty when things are written out in a dryly theoretical fashion. It's easier for me to read between the lines of literature or a speech or a life and grasp the cognitive function that way. Then I'm taking it in with my introverted judging function and figuring it out for myself.
    Fair enough. You’re saying that you’re cognizant of the fact that INFJs extrovert their own particular brand of Fe, IOW, that Fe as exhibited in INFJs is a weaker, Auxiliary version of Fe and it’s one that’s heavily influenced by Ni.

    So that’s fine. No problem.

    The main reason I nitpick this point is that I pretty much have a favorable impression of Fe when it’s in the Dominant position. For example, a lot of self-help books are written by ENFJs, and in those self-help books the “tone” of Fe is one of helping people, of being supportive, of offering tools and tips for dealing with specific problems, and doing it in a manner that’s cooperative as opposed to pushy.

    My experience of Fe-Doms in the flesh is similarly positive, for the most part. And ENFJs on the message board tend to be low-key and harmonious, so much so that Fi-users often complain about Fe on TypoC without even considering the positive example set by the board’s ENFJs.

    So when someone says that Fe is “foreign” to them in a thread about INFPs vs. INFJs, I tend to want to remind them that Fe is very changeable depending on whether it’s in Dom or Aux position. Fi-users can experience Fe as a very hospitable and warm function when it’s in Dom position.

    In other words, it’s all relative. So I like to put in those cautions and qualifications.

  6. #196
    Just a note... LittleV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    no - that has being discussed to death, and that sit is currently reserved to @Vasilisa with @the state i am in being a close second. i would say @fia is within the first 10 (in terms of proximity to the quintessential INFJ). while still a new runner, i have a guess that @LittleV might very well give them all a run for their money though.
    Aww, that’s sweet of you – but I’m just stepping in and out (that’s what happens when you’re a grad student). There are plenty of unique, thoughtful members here, though.

  7. #197
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    INFP says: ”I register DFW’s speech as Ni-Dom and perceiver-ish. One of the hallmarks of Ni-dom thinking is the idea that certain things are self-evident. The Ni-dom function churns so deeply and powerfully that Ni-Doms figure it's redundant to spell out all the steps they used to work out their theories. So DFW presents his thoughts on empathy in a loosey-goosey fashion, just the high points, and he acts like everything else should be self-evident.

    INFJ responds: Well, isn’t the rest of it self-evident?

    INFP says: That’s a typical Ni-Dom response. You’re making my point for me!

    Just for contrast, if you want an example of how an INFP might package up an emotional Fi-Dom “model” for presentation in the outside world, see my post on emotional bonds here: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post2083650

    Some say that an Fi-Dom model looks similar to Ti. But it’s not really about logic; it’s about parsing how emotion works and how people interact.
    but what if dfw is actually an infp 9w1 sx/sp, like i have him typed? do not all types think their assumptions, their privileged forms of self-organization (the structure of their learning that they identify as themselves), are self-evident? especially when those provide the backdrop upon which any kind of conscious experience can arise at all?

    my point is that the way in which something appears self-evident is more the question that needs to be answered, again and again and again, when playing the typology game.

    so if we're going to play the function description game, it's not enough to simply work at one level of a behavior and claim that as evidence for the objective reality of a set of complexly distributed, underlying conditions spanning multiple levels of organization that we in turn cannot directly observe. that is the Ni critique. Ni uses a particular method of mapping out conditions (the hierarchical backdrops that disclose what is possible) that others might not see. it sees the underlying geometry of abstractions (their bisections and parallel relationships) that exist in the mind of the systems around it, as it can interpret their functionality (Fe) as a kind of positive or negative intent when compared to other systems through analogy, filtered through its own set of frameworks that have emerged through time. Fi is more of an embodied, consequential, experiential function that utilizes its own felt resonances to remember movements of things in the world as they happened in actual time and space (to real extent). to feel, through the lens of one's own embodied, empathetic self-placement, the method acting out of all the characters, the justice of the outcome of games that have occurred, and to decide the value, whether it is on behalf of the good or whether it is part of the plague (<--blatant camus plug).

  8. #198
    Society
    Guest

    Default


  9. #199
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    5 sx
    Posts
    506

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    but what if dfw is actually an infp 9w1 sx/sp, like i have him typed? do not all types think their assumptions, their privileged forms of self-organization (the structure of their learning that they identify as themselves), are self-evident? especially when those provide the backdrop upon which any kind of conscious experience can arise at all?

    my point is that the way in which something appears self-evident is more the question that needs to be answered, again and again and again, when playing the typology game.

    so if we're going to play the function description game, it's not enough to simply work at one level of a behavior and claim that as evidence for the objective reality of a set of complexly distributed, underlying conditions spanning multiple levels of organization that we in turn cannot directly observe. that is the Ni critique. Ni uses a particular method of mapping out conditions (the hierarchical backdrops that disclose what is possible) that others might not see. it sees the underlying geometry of abstractions (their bisections and parallel relationships) that exist in the mind of the systems around it, as it can interpret their functionality (Fe) as a kind of positive or negative intent when compared to other systems through analogy, filtered through its own set of frameworks that have emerged through time. Fi is more of an embodied, consequential, experiential function that utilizes its own felt resonances to remember movements of things in the world as they happened in actual time and space (to real extent). to feel, through the lens of one's own embodied, empathetic self-placement, the method acting out of all the characters, the justice of the outcome of games that have occurred, and to decide the value, whether it is on behalf of the good or whether it is part of the plague (<--blatant camus plug).
    this is as dense as it is interesting and I hope you don't mind if I ask for clarification.

    - why do you think DFW is an INFP?
    - could you expand on this?
    - what do you mean by Fi being "consequential"?
    - is it wrong to assume that INFPs are generally more emotional than INFJs?

  10. #200
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by decrescendo View Post
    this is as dense as it is interesting and I hope you don't mind if I ask for clarification.

    - why do you think DFW is an INFP?
    - could you expand on this?
    - what do you mean by Fi being "consequential"?
    - is it wrong to assume that INFPs are generally more emotional than INFJs?
    you ask a good question that i cannot answer in a straightforward way.

    i think i look at bits and pieces, and work backwards rather than forwards to cross cancel until i'm left with a few possibilities. admittedly, it's extremely circular.

    for me, my own personal anecdotes and pieces are this. he (the pictures, interviews, excerpts, and speech) reminds me of a couple of infp 9w1 sx/sp males i know, one in personal life who loved dfw, and the other bill hicks. also, one of my best friends, a 9w1 so/sp has dedicated much of his academic work to dfw, and feels a kinship that i think i see in so much deeper than a text to a text and much deeper than i can describe here (involving aspects of existentialism, the need for choice, the process of giving good reasons, the desire to find balance between e9 and e1 and reconcile responsibility with acceptance). the critical orientation, the standards, the alienation, the depression, the extremely strong e1 bent, the empathy (read some of the stories in oblivion imagining other traumatic experiences), and the sense of suffering that comes from the interplay between the two, when acceptance is unforthcoming, this brings a strong 9w1 feel to me. i also feel the pull to e3.

    i also don't see any marking of j. his eye movements are incredibly visual/reconstructive. he feels more experiential than representational to me. nfjs often, especially when voicing things for themselves rather than effortfully voicing for others, tend to rely on big concepts to convey what they mean. everything feels like a hyperlink, which makes the text more like a labyrinth than a direct account of an experience. we're more heavily mediated by meanings rather than stories. dfw uses stories to illustrate points, is admittedly and pointedly didactic in doing so, and tries to find common ground in the uniqueness of our own experiences that shape our opportunity to make our own interpretations in the most "well-adjusted" way possible. he's avoidant of concepts like compassion because they can lose the personal, lived relevance of real practices. he's very careful to present his perspective in a way that is not moralizing, is not an ideal or a "virtue" but instead a way of being more aware of what is happening outside of you and where you are at in the greater context of the world as it is happening around you, as it is, and to take responsibility to do the work to make your own interpretation. the p imperative that truth comes from testing things for yourself.

    in other words, experience is first, interpretation is secondary.

    infjs clarify the symbols that exist, they recenter them, they find larger patterns connecting them and unifying them. we make maps that help people navigate the mazes they find themselves in, that are templates for organizing oneself, for integrating oneself, but are never the actual ends but only guides that can never replace life as it is actually lived. when inj types use stories to illustrate, in general i find them a bit more contrived and less natural. they're more connected to everyday realities for that exact inj than they are able to easily feel out a number of similar, analogous processes. we have to conceptualize to analogize.

    finally, to respond to your last two questions, by consequential i just mean p types see changes more. they're aware of what happens more broadly afterwards rather than looking for specific expectations to be confirmed, or trying to provide a lens, a new set of expectations, to guide them. it's so much more relativistic. and i would say that "more emotional" is a tough call. e4s are emotionally complex, extremely self-conscious, and have a lot of work as far as managing their mood (which is usually really up and down). e9s have a much more deeply, bodily presence, connectedness to their own feelings, to their own sensual experiences. infjs and infps are primarily these two types, so they're very similar in many crucial ways. they have different ways of going about very similar projects, and infps attach to their values a bit more firmly than infjs (assuming we do not simply equate values to ego-driven emotional patterns), vs infjs who attach a bit more firmly to their meanings (interpretations). either way, both types practice noticing the difference between the feelings directly and the interpretations in order to work on their beliefs, or they crush themselves and become quite immovable.

Similar Threads

  1. Video: INFP vs. INFJ: Andrew Garfield and Carey Mulligan
    By highlander in forum Typology Videos and RSS Feeds
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 12-02-2014, 09:33 AM
  2. [NF] INFP vs. INFJ
    By labyrinthine in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 81
    Last Post: 01-15-2014, 11:34 AM
  3. [NF] INFP vs INFJ?
    By Ribonuke in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 06-29-2012, 10:27 AM
  4. INFP vs. INFJ vs. ISFJ
    By nathdep in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-11-2012, 10:08 PM
  5. [NF] What do you guys think?: INFP vs. INFJ
    By Glycerine in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: 09-25-2009, 04:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO