[MBTI General] Privacy or "the other man"?

[Amargith]

She sounds conflicted. Fighting with herself, for that matter. She definitely likes you, I'd say, but if we are to believe her on her word, she has some serious trust and intimacy issues for sure. She really does not want to give up the way you make her feel though, and I suspect you dont either

Speaking from experience, being insanely private and that phobic of commitment combined with long distance relationships (at least if you want them to go somewhere), is not combinable. It just isnt. The reason a long distance relationship survives is because there is implicit trust on both ends and you're even more transparent with each other than you would be in close proximity to make sure jealousy and paranoia (as you are experiencing atm) do not have a shot in hell.

That said, she did tell you she wanted to take it back a notch and you *did* agree to that. In a more casual relationship, I take it it could be more of a booty call thing. It is truly up to you whether you are happy this way or if you want to rock the boat further and tell her which parts do not work for you.

As for contact, I know that I made my INTJ a priority every time he contacted me coz I missed him so (in a long distance relationship). He came first because of the limited time we had together. If you feel her focus is elsewhere (aside from the normal ups and downs of life)...it would be more akin to the booty call relationship you seem to be having atm, and a sign this might not be long-term material.

 

[Society]

Thank you all for the replies. I have found out a few things. Her words:

yep, you are definitely her fuck toy - nothing wrong with it in itself - all in good fun.

the question is, are you ok with that?

 

[CowboyJack]

yep, you are definitely her fuck toy - nothing wrong with it in itself - all in good fun.

the question is, are you ok with that?

That is the question I am asking myself, and I'm thinking I'm not 100% okay with it. Sucks.

 

[Amargith]

That is the question I am asking myself, and I'm thinking I'm not 100% okay with it. Sucks.

So start with determining what exactly you do want from her. Then calmly tell her about it and ask her if that is something she is up for. Give her time to consider it. Be ready to lose her

 

[CowboyJack]

She sounds conflicted. Fighting with herself, for that matter. She definitely likes you, I'd say, but if we are to believe her on her word, she has some serious trust and intimacy issues for sure. She really does not want to give up the way you make her feel though, and I suspect you dont either

Speaking from experience, being insanely private and that phobic of commitment combined with long distance relationships (at least if you want them to go somewhere), is not combinable. It just isnt. The reason a long distance relationship survives is because there is implicit trust on both ends and you're even more transparent with each other than you would be in close proximity to make sure jealousy and paranoia (as you are experiencing atm) do not have a shot in hell.

That said, she did tell you she wanted to take it back a notch and you *did* agree to that. In a more casual relationship, I take it it could be more of a booty call thing. It is truly up to you whether you are happy this way or if you want to rock the boat further and tell her which parts do not work for you.

As for contact, I know that I made my INTJ a priority every time he contacted me coz I missed him so (in a long distance relationship). He came first because of the limited time we had together. If you feel her focus is elsewhere (aside from the normal ups and downs of life)...it would be more akin to the booty call relationship you seem to be having atm, and a sign this might not be long-term material.

I know the title and OP of this thread include questions about being "the other guy", but I don't think I actually ever believed it was a real possibility. I think it was more a product of my head space at the time. She has told me, and I believe her, that she does not sleep around.

We met online, emailed back and forth, Skyped for hours, then talked on the phone everyday for hours, for about a month (maybe more) before we met in person. She later told me that her "plan" was to met me and have nothing more then a sexual relationship, a short fling, but found that she really liked me. We have more things in common then I can list, from core values, political views, humanitarian causes, base culture and beliefs, taste in food, lots of little things. We are very comfortable together. The problems are when we are not together. She does contact me every day, however it is usually after 10:00-10:30 at night. She is talking to people in the chatroom of the forum we are both on, she is on Face Book, she is on the phone with work stuff, she is all over the damn place. I honestly feel like I am very low on her priority list. She does, however, make the three hour drive to get here at least once a month, but usually every couple of weeks. Which, yes, I have a problem with that, too. She says she will be here on Saturday, to which I assume means sometime during the day, if not morning, but, no, she gets here anywhere from 7 to 9pm. She does stay until Monday afternoon, though.

I have no idea whats going on anymore, or what I'm going to do about it all.

 

[Bamboo]

I'm not sure if I should tell you to come up with a list of what you would consider acceptable alternatives to the current behavior or if you should ask her to modify things a little and see if her response is acceptable.

But maybe one of those.

 

[cafe]

I'm sorry you're experiencing this situation. It has to suck and I hope something more satisfactory works out for you.

 

[kyuuei]

I wish I had more positive things to say. The things that do not alarm me:
- Her flaky timing when she comes to visit.
- Her need to call/talk at around the same times each night.

What really really alarms me:
- The fact that no dates can come over at all (even if they sleep in another bed or on the couch or something??) even though the arrangement is financial.
- The fact that she wanted to scale the relationship back.
- Her wishy-washy terminology.

I see a lot of ENFPs bend and twist the truth because they don't actually want to burn the bridge they know they will burn when they say it. It's so much easier to say, "Well we should just take it back a notch" set you up for failure by not providing great parameters for what that notch is, and then let you burn it yourself instead of being forthright to begin with.
If I were her, I certainly would never let an ex tell me how to live in my own residence.
The privacy thing. I'm one of the most private people I know... but even so, privacy often translates to "I dont want anyone knowing." The fact that you haven't known her friends yet is pretty alarming. I'd at least have my date be in with one of my groups of friends if not all of them. (ENFPs love to group invite.. even when they sometimes shouldn't.)

 

[CowboyJack]

As I said, I do not know what to make of it. She has admitted to commitment issues, said that it takes her a very long time (as in years) to decide if she wants a relationship, which, by the way, what the hell does that mean, anyway? And why would it take years??

 

[Jonny]

Sometimes what people say about themselves and their motivations is quite different than reality. When she tells you that it takes her a long time to commit, she could mean that it actually does take her a long time, but she could also be lying. The only truth that can be reasonably parsed from that statement is that she wants you to know that you shouldn't expect any commitment from her anytime soon. Basically, it sounds like you have feelings for her and she has a fondness for you, but not enough to change her life to create something with you in the present.

It's probably a safe bet to assume that you don't have an easy time meeting quality women who are available. I say this because, were it not so difficult for you to find another girl who's available and worthwhile, you'd likely have done it already (forgive me if you haven't done so for other reasons, such as having some profound connection with this girl unmatched in the history of human love). Regardless of how difficult it has been for you, if the current state of affairs is causing you distress, my recommendation would be to make yourself available for romance with other people, preferably in your immediate area. It will certainly be hard to get out of your current head-space, but I can assure you that it will be exponentially more difficult for you if you continue to be at the mercy of her whims.

If you change your frame of reference, and consider her a friend with benefits as opposed to a potential mate/life partner, I think you'll be in a better position to enjoy the benefits of your current circumstances (if you are comfortable with such an arrangement). You mention that you two have a good time when you are together. Are you having a good time because what you do together is worthwhile, or because of the feelings that you have at the thought of being in a relationship? From personal experience, I know that we can sometimes enjoy a person's company not because of anything substantial, but because we enjoy the fact that we have someone... anyone filling that role. If you're going to be able to be fwb with this girl, you need to be sure that you actually enjoy the time you spend together in-and-of-itself, and not for the fact that it symbolizes some potential future together. It isn't an investment, it's an expenditure; better make sure you get your value up front.

Again, what I'm saying isn't meant to discount the depth of emotions you're likely experiencing as a result of this situation. I just know how terribly destructive those emotions can be, and how we often convince ourselves to remain in unhealthy emotional states to avoid experiencing the temporary worsening of those feelings. Here's a graph for you because I can:

If you continue in your current state, and my perceptions about your feelings are accurate, you'll likely continue to have your highs and lows as indicated by the orange line. If you choose to move on, you'll have to suffer through a period of more emotional turmoil, fewer highs, and more extreme lows. It's fear of those lows that keeps us from making healthy decisions for ourselves. We are short-sited and weak in this regard. But, if you make the decision to move-on, and you give it your best effort, you will be able to find yourself again and have more stability in your life.

It certainly is possible that if you stick with this girl that something wonderful could come of it, but based upon my past experiences, I find that prospect exceedingly unlikely.

 

[Thalassa]

You have never met any of her friends and are unlikely to? Why would you be unlikely to even if you hadn't yet? Sounds like a cheater.

 

[Thalassa]

Thank you all for the replies. I have found out a few things. Her words:



So, there it is.

What is she, a man?

"I love you, I love having sex with you, but I don't want a relationship with you...because I am insanely private and live just a few hours away (not all the way across the country or in another nation)."

Is she married? Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ on a Pogo Stick.

 

[Winds of Thor]

You have never met any of her friends and are unlikely to? Why would you be unlikely to even if you hadn't yet? Sounds like a cheater.

Yea. Is she living a double life?

 

[cafe]

If I had a girlfriend tell me these things, I'd be convinced the guy she was seeing was messing around on his wife. Some of those things are classic signs of being "the other woman."

 

[CowboyJack]

As I said, I really have no idea what to think.

 

[Society]

As I said, I really have no idea what to think.

well, put the question of fidelity aside for a moment - she isn't giving you any commitments, so if she is cheating, its not on you.

right now, she appears to be comfortable with the situation, knowing that it hurts you. doesn't really seem like she gives a damn, not enough to change anything. so from what i gather - you have an emotional involvement with someone who isn't emotionally involved back. meaning that if you continue:

pro's:
you continue to enjoy her company.
you continue to enjoy your sexual chemistry.

cons:
you might feel rejected from the connection you desire every time the reality of the situation comes up.
you might be emotionally unavailable to form connections with women who truly would like to get emotionally involved with you.
you might accumulate false hopes created by mixed signals growing into higher levels of disappointment & hurt.
she is comfortable with maintaining the situation - thus she is unlikely to change it.

did i miss anything?

 

[CowboyJack]

Well, she came up for the weekend. After a couple of hours of great sex, best we have had for awhile, I asked her if there was another guy, the conversation just went in that direction. She said no, and I do believe her. It was different this time when she was here, more relaxed and the sex and intimacy was like it was when we first got together. The week before, I was not as "available" to talk as I usually am. I don't know if that made a difference or not, or if the conversations that I posted about did. She didn't say when she was coming back, and for the first time, I did not ask.