[Jungian Cognitive Functions] INTJ seeks help with INFJ that just broke up with him

[2013lost]

I have been dating an INTJ for just short of a year. It was intense and fast. We lived together after a few weeks. I just came out of a 18 year relationship and have three kids and this caused a lot of doubt that I could love her. Our biggest issue was that we both drank too much (not crazy but too much) and I am not pleasant when drinking, not horrible but insecure and not loving. She lost her faith in my security and she moved out in February. I quit drinking and everything seemed to be going great. We got back together and both professed undying love for each other.

Suddenly, she emails me to inform me that she is leaving to go visit her family in Michigan (she is a recent transplant to California and has no ties, work or otherwise here and feels the need to help her family that is in a time of crisis.) but that she also need the time to think and figure out where she was going with her life and us. She mellowed out a little and when she left she promised (a promise is golden for her) to return in a few short weeks and that she loved me. It has been two months now.

The first two weeks were very hard. She hardly talked to me as she needed time to recharge and figure things out. It then became great, good conversations, missing each other, love, etc..but she could not pull the trigger to return to CA. She never promised a date but on a few occasions asked if she could come on such and such a date (of course!!) but then would need another week. We discussed our future and options. It then came up that she had a good opportunity pop up in New Orleans and wanted to travel to there and investigate it and then come out to CA.

She has been there a week. She was about to buy a ticket to CA. Everything was great in our discussions, typical we are in love talk. Then suddenly, last Thursday, she sent me an email saying she could not come out and that it was over. Her conclusion was that every time she went to buy a ticket she felt uncertain (the lost faith, trust, security thing: which I have done everything in my power to show she has no fear there but it is in her gut and that I can't overcome.) and because she was uncertain she therefore was certain that she should not come back. She ended it by saying

A. I love you.
B. I can't be with you.

We are still talking on a daily basis but only by email and text. We have not had a single phone conversation about it. It is too hard for her. I told her I would wait until the time was right but that I wanted to talk in person. She said she could not as she knew she would not be able to leave me. I told her I will wait, forever if necessary.

To add further confusion, when I apologize over calling her "baby" (since we are not together it was not appropriate), she replied that she loved it when I called her that.

She tells me everyday that she loves me and that this is very very hard for her. I don't know what to do. Give her time? Visit her (she said no) but will come out her in a month or so to get her stuff (she left it all here). Talk about brutal packing up your exes clothes and possessions (I am moving and need to put in storage with my stuff in the short term).

In an effort to gain faith that I am really in love with her (she believe I already have had my one true love) I have switched my life insurance policy so it is payable to her, she is the beneficiary on all my other accounts, told her I would move to New Orleans (that is big when you have three kids), that I would marry her (I never married my ex of 18 years because I don't like the Gov in my business but would do it for her), runaway with her, whatever it took. And no she wants nothing from me money wise, she barely accepts gifts. She is the sweetest most caring person I know but I something is holding her back - I know it is gaining trust, and security but how?

There is so much more but no one will read this far. WHAT DO I DO? WAIT? GO SEE HER?

Please help. I love her very much.

 

[Dudesowin]

she was uncertain she therefore was certain <---- this does not make any sense.

I have switched my life insurance policy so it is payable to her, she is the beneficiary on all my other accounts!!!!!! <---- this sounds dangerous.

but no one will read this far. (I use a keyword highlighting system and a stream algorithm to parse for textual anomalies.)

~~~ These parts are not right. ~~~
I have been dating an INTJ for just short of a year.
We got back together and both professed undying love for each other.
I quit drinking and everything seemed to be going great.
typical we are in love talk.
it was over.
I can't overcome.
wait until the time was right but that I wanted to talk in person.
it was not appropriate

Solution: Pull yourself together stop planning for a future that may not exist and "be the change you wish to see in the world" <--- Quoted from an INFJ

Next be a proper father and quit talking about running away. You don't even have a proper house right now anyway! INFJ know not the meaning of the word retreat just look at history so many prominent civil rights proponents were INFJ. You can't throw insurance, money, gifts no woman enjoys being treated like a whore these items must have intricent personal value. Other people will always be in your business including the Government, but that's no reason to act like a bitch about it.

 

[cafe]

I can't make any sense of it. There is no apparent doorslam.

 

[21%]

Sometimes people would rather not put themselves in the position to get hurt, even if the decision itself hurts them. Little hurt now to save themselves from a bigger hurt down the road.

This is not healthy, but unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it, because it's her decision, her life. Falling in love to me feels like jumping into a raging ocean. It's wonderful but it's terrifying. I can understand why she chooses not to jump.

My humble advice would be to get on with your life. If she decides she wants to come back, she will. Some things are just not in your hands, so it's best to let them go.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Pretty strong cognitive dissonance going on in her. It sounds like on an emotional level she feels very much connected to you and is easily swayed to wanting to be with you, but in her mind she thinks it is not a good idea.

I would suggest giving her space to figure things out. I don't think making her the beneficiary of life insurance is necessary or helpful. I would say that a sense of security for her would be for you to offer your consistency as a deep friend who will always be there for her, and if you feel this connection is important enough, perhaps be willing to wait for her for a time? For her sake I would suggest not stirring up the emotional aspect of the connection, but to see if she can make sense of why she thinks the relationship will be a problem for her. The drinking issue does need to be demonstrated to be in the past. I also think it could help her process her confusion by seeing a counselor. A trained counselor helps people to organize their thoughts and figure out what they really need and desire. Then also, if she really thinks and feels that this relationship is not what she needs in her life, then can you respect that and let her go in kindness?

I would focus on the aspects of your connection that are based on love and not those based on attachment. Focus on being invested in each others' well being as individuals, and not how each other can fulfill personal need. What do you think?

 

[Starry]

In an effort to gain faith that I am really in love with her (she believe I already have had my one true love) I have switched my life insurance policy so it is payable to her, she is the beneficiary on all my other accounts, told her I would move to New Orleans (that is big when you have three kids),that I would marry her (I never married my ex of 18 years because I don't like the Gov in my business but would do it for her), runaway with her, whatever it took. And no she wants nothing from me money wise, she barely accepts gifts. She is the sweetest most caring person I know but I something is holding her back - I know it is gaining trust, and security but how?

My heart truly goes out to you While the circumstances couldn't be more different I relate to your story more than you will probably ever know.


From the time I joined this site until very recently I would have taken it upon myself to speak for all the NFs. I'm not so sure I am qualified to do that anymore...I've been experiencing some 'type confusion' haha...and perhaps all I am doing in this moment is providing you with the NFP stance...which in this case will be completely useless to you and for this I apologize. But to the bolded above? That would be an instant...instant, instant, instant deal breaker. If I was on the fence with regards to a relationship and the other person demonstrated even the slightest inclination to putting their happiness ahead of their children's (regardless of age...it would not matter to me if these were adult children)...I would be so fuckin gone in a heartbeat and would never look back.

I know so many parents that feel like failures...that fell so deep into hardship, illness and/or despair that they could not carry out what would normally be considered 'their parental duties'. And yet their children are the epitome of health and well-being. Why? Because the child/ren never lost sight of the fact that they were loved unconditionally... and despite appearances...despite what their parent was actually able to make manifest...they still came first.

What I wrote instantly reminds me of the poem - The Invitation by Oriahe Mountain Dreamer
I've actually seen this poem in some 'ENFPs what poems do you relate to?' thread (which again may be of little use to you). But yah this verse...

"It doesn't interest me to know where you live or how much money you have. I want to know if you can get up after a night of grief and despair, weary and bruised to the bone and do what needs to be done for the children."

^^^if someone isn't struggling against all odds to do the above regardless of what they can actually do... that would not be someone I would allow into my heart.

 

[Thalassa]

You sound like you're carried away emotionally on the rebound from the 18 year relationship. You're an INTJ and you just tried to give some woman your life insurance policy instead of to the mother of your children, want to move to New Orleans to be with her, and will marry her even though you didn't marry the mother of your children?

None of this seems the least bit sensible or Te. Instead of questioning your type, I'm going to question if perhaps you have bipolar disorder. Were you drinking to self-medicate? When you say you were insecure and not loving, were you at all abusive when you drank?

I mean I could be wrong, this could be the first time you've known a person you've really had a good mental connection with, because you're both INxJs, but it all sounds sort of irrational.

Something of this kind I would more expect from an xxFP or maybe some ExFJs.

Shouldn't someone your age know that infatuation and limerence aren't "love"?

I'm sorry, I'm being mean as hell, but you need to snap out of it, you're the father of three children, and claiming to be one of the most rational types, and middle aged.

I think you need a reality check. I'm here all week.

 

[Thalassa]

Sometimes people would rather not put themselves in the position to get hurt, even if the decision itself hurts them. Little hurt now to save themselves from a bigger hurt down the road.

This is not healthy, but unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it, because it's her decision, her life. Falling in love to me feels like jumping into a raging ocean. It's wonderful but it's terrifying. I can understand why she chooses not to jump.

My humble advice would be to get on with your life. If she decides she wants to come back, she will. Some things are just not in your hands, so it's best to let them go.

How do you know that it's her that isn't healthy? I love you but I can't be with you is something I said to my ESFJ ex who was abusive and refused to seek psychiatric help for what was most likely BPD.

I'm not diagnosing anyone here with anything, but I'm frankly kind of disturbed by what I'm reading, and wonder what's missing from the monologue.

Why does everyone immediately empathize with the OP in most threads? That isn't really standing back from the situation and trying to objectively assess it.

The thing that stands out to me most is that she won't visit him, won't let him visit her, won't talk to him on the phone, yet will talk via emails and text, and obviously does care deeply for him. People do things like this when they are trying to protect themselves from an addict or abuser that they love or care strongly for.

Doesn't mean she doesn't love him. But it doesn't mean that they should be together, or that he can prove his stability by throwing money at her.

 

[21%]

How do you know that it's her that isn't healthy? I love you but I can't be with you is something I said to my ESFJ ex who was abusive and refused to seek psychiatric help for what was most likely BPD.

I'm not diagnosing anyone here with anything, but I'm frankly kind of disturbed by what I'm reading, and wonder what's missing from the monologue.

Why does everyone immediately empathize with the OP in most threads? That isn't really standing back from the situation and trying to objectively assess it.

The thing that stands out to me most is that she won't visit him, won't let him visit her, won't talk to him on the phone, yet will talk via emails and text, and obviously does care deeply for him. People do things like this when they are trying to protect themselves from an addict or abuser that they love or care strongly for.

Doesn't mean she doesn't love him. But it doesn't mean that they should be together, or that he can prove his stability by throwing money at her.

You've got a point here so I'm not disagreeing with you. It just seems from the OP that he has no idea what he's doing wrong and why it's not working out for reasons that are seemingly beyond his control. Maybe 'unhealthy' was too strong a word, but I can't help but feel that there isn't a clear decision from her what she wants, and keeping on saying she loves him but cannot be with him without saying why is obviously messing with his head. And breaking up through email is just not right...

 

[Thalassa]

You've got a point here so I'm not disagreeing with you. It just seems from the OP that he has no idea what he's doing wrong and why it's not working out for reasons that are seemingly beyond his control. Maybe 'unhealthy' was too strong a word, but I can't help but feel that there isn't a clear decision from her what she wants, and keeping on saying she loves him but cannot be with him without saying why is obviously messing with his head. And breaking up through email is just not right...

Yes, but it's very difficult if you love an addict or an abuser or someone who won't get help ...to just cut them off. I mean she's not door slamming him, you know?

Some people even hang on out of fear the other party will do something to hurt themselves.

But it could be legitimate love on her part, but the realization that a relationship with him just doesn't work. And I'm sure the fact that he's offering her his life insurance policy and saying he will pretty much abandon his kids for her probably doesn't make her more reassured, it probably makes her feel less, like if this man was thinking straight or acting with love, even if he loved me, why aren't his kids a priority.

It can be very confusing to be in love with someone you know probably isn't good for you in the long run. She may just feel confused, and yet she has the presence of mind to set firm boundaries with him.

If she's just leading him on, or they barely know each other, then yeah, I agree, she should just cut him off completely. But if you have developed some kind of attachment to someone it's not always that simple.

I'm not saying I have no sympathy for him at all, but at the same time, I think he may need to stop thinking of her as this confusing INFJ he needs to win over by manic acts of desperation, and more about how his behavior is coming across as being the opposite of trustworthy or stable.

 

[2013lost]

I do not want to be rude and not participate in my own thread but I just had a project suddenly start and I won't have much time for a few days. I appreciate ALL the posts and am trying to take in all that is being said. In the meantime, nothing has really changed. I am laying low, working and just trying to be supportive.


Regards

 

[2013lost]

I'm not saying I have no sympathy for him at all, but at the same time, I think he may need to stop thinking of her as this confusing INFJ he needs to win over by manic acts of desperation, and more about how his behavior is coming across as being the opposite of trustworthy or stable.

I think you are on to something. In the past, she has said that she needs me to be steady that she needs a home (not a structure but a person or place that makes her feel safe). I was never abusive but the drinking made me depressed, unmotivated and unhappy which she took in as meaning that she did not make me happy. It is a fair observation. I just wish she would give the completely sober me a chance. I am night and day. Only time will tell.

 

[LittleV]

It could be a tricky thing because every INFJ is different, such is the case for all of the types. I could tell you that I agree with the commenters suggesting that you should respect her wishes while continuing to be supportive, until she may deem you to mean well and to be able to stick to your decisions despite distractions (this is generally the best default route: space). Visiting her would be risky; however, it did work when my ex had done such things (for better or worse). Nonetheless, if the true issue is her trust and she indeed loves you, then properly indicate to her that you’re dependable and have everything together when sober. Outside of that, all you can do is wait. Good luck.

 

[Winds of Thor]

You're thinking way too much on this. INFJs can be cold IME and your dilemma may not have as much to do with you as it does their issues. That's my guess. There are a lot of screwed up people out there, refuse to take it personally IMO.

 

[Dudesowin]

INTJ and alcohol do not mix at all I have past experience with this. It is like that saying "Lose lips sink ships".

Here are a few tips to stabilize things. You are a free man with 3 wonderful children. And you gained a secret long distance pen pal along with many memories to reminisce on and new found wisdom. In other words you are better off now than you were before the relationship right? If not then why any desire to want into it again?

Lets get to the basis of this matter... you feel emasculated because you think she is cheating on you? LOL nobody cares her loss if so right?

 

[2013lost]

(this is generally the best default route: space).

I think you are correct. We exchange a few texts each day and I only offer her support and understanding. I worry about her. She has told me that she is crying and have a very hard time with the transition. I don't push anything and only tell her to let me know if there is anything I can do for her. In the past, she has praised me for being the best and most patient boyfriend.

It slipped my mind, mainly because I never notice the symptoms but she is being treated for a dissociative disorder. AND last week stopped taking all her meds (she ran out and the program that she gets them from is out here). The mix of meds they had her on was pretty crazy in my opinion. It was bupropion, xanax, amphetamine salts, and just started naltrexone (spelling?) I worry about her and have offered to pickup the meds and FedX, something I have done twice before when this has happened.

 

[2013lost]

"Lose lips sink ships".

... you feel emasculated because you think she is cheating on you? LOL nobody cares her loss if so right?

Loose lips...you hit the nail on the head!

cheating: she can't cheat on me we are not together and it is not a worry of mine. She would tell me instantly. She doesn't understand the concept of white lies and is very, very frank and direct.

Running away...yes in a way but it would always incorporate my kids. I would either travel back and forth and/or have them travel or just spend half the year in one place. All in the short term, not the long run. Kids are getting older and are the best, most supportive, well adjusted kids in the world (IMHO!!) From day one they loved and supported my girlfriend and miss her almost as much as I do. Even my EX is doing all she can to help me through this time.

Another postedr said something about being COLD....maybe I have not caught on but in my opinion she is the most caring and thoughtful person I have every known. She puts too much out for others. She gave up her life and dreams to take care of an ill mother that was never really a mother to her. She is now willing to do the same to help her sister. She keeps putting her life on hold to help others who are really much better off than she is. Perhaps it is a way of avoiding responsibility or failure but she really, really cares about others in a deep way.

emasculated....actually my EX was seeing a very good mutual friend for a year prior to our breakup and it actually made the process easier for me. It became black and white. It is very complicated and hard to explain in the time I have but the three of us still see each other socially several times a week and are all still good friends. My only beef is that they never fessed up and came clean to me but waited until I told them it was ok.